Questions for Mandy

[Coito ergo sum]

i was reading papers, they say very few cases of rape end up with jailing of men who did it.

Oh, what a relief. Just a few? The fact that it's even possible is revolting.

Coito ergo sum:
That depends on what source you're looking at. There are all sorts of statistics out there. What we do know, though, is that if a woman is raped she isn't going to be stoned for adultery.

but women get worse than that. they trumatised by being forced to go through the whole bloody experice all over gain. in london court, women sit in front of the men who raped them, and these boys keep giggling and then at the end the men go free. this messes up the poor lady for life. its so barbaric what stupid british courts do to women.

They don't go free when they are proved guilty. And, of course the women have to testify. How else do you find out what happened? In the west we have principles that apply to criminal defendants - the right to confront witnesses, the right to challenge the evidence against them, the right to an attorney, etc.

However, having to testify in court about one's rape is not "worse" than being buried in the ground up to one's waist or neck and then stoned to death. You think testifying is worse than stoning to death? WTF?

And, we do know that if she claims rape, her case will be investigated, the accused will be questioned, and if after that investigation there is probable cause to arrest he will be arrested.

but most guys get away with it. few cases end in imprionment. coppers dont believe women.

That's not true. Women are believed as much as any other criminal complainant is believed. Her story is listened to and checked out to see if there is evidence. She is, of course, not just "believed" without question. That would be ridiculous, because it would make women be able to jail men by mere accusation.

In your world, however, a woman not only would have to relive the rape, but she wouldn't even stand a chance in court unless two men testified on her behalf that the rape occurred! And, possibly, she'd be stoned to death. Nice!

Of course western countries don't just take the word of an accuser of any crime that the accused did it.

i knew that. british courts dont trust what so called raped woman are saying. judges think she was asking for it and not playing the innocent.

No, British courts don't simply trust ANY criminal complainant. There must be evidence in order to convict someone of a crime. They don't think she was "asking for it." The burden is on the prosecutor to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, just like any crime.

In Islamic law, however, women are not believed. Men must testify on her behalf. If not, she might be stoned.

There has to be evidence in order for there to be a conviction.

you are really a rocket scientists arent you.

It seems you are unfamiliar with the concept. You seem to want accusers to just be "believed" without the prosecution having to prove their case.

And, naturally, the systems are imperfect, and sometimes the guilty go free, and sometimes the innocent are convicted.

there are no "systems" mate. There is just one Godly system and one Godless system.

There are no gods, and I'm not your "mate." Allah is a false god and Mohammed is a false prophet.

thats it. so dont say systems are not perfect. your system is not perfect.

Of course it's not. And, neither is Islamic law. Any law that would stone a woman because she was raped, or for committing adultery, is a diabolical system.

atheist system is screwed up than islamic system of justice. Allah dont make mistakes.

Allah doesn't do anything. It doesn't exist.

His laws are perfect.

Perfect abominations.

your laws are messed up thats why you keep changing your stupid rules by saying oh no that was wrong, we need to free gays now. oh no that laws was bad idea, we need to stop showing porn videos to shools kids, oh no our banks were to free, we need to place restrictions on them, oh no, we need to let women vote now its look sbad if we dont, oh no we got it wrong... and on and on and bloody on... Its never ending. you know what i mean. its pathetics.

Islamic law is pathetic because it is backwards, stupid and unwilling to change. It's barbaric. Look at you. You're actually defending the stoning of women for adultery. What a joke! Perfect god? In a pig's ass.

You can be sure that Allah's system has not devised any better a means to increase the reliability.

I can be sure, and i am sure mate. so dont pretend to know what i am sure about.

You're sure about a lot of stuff you're wrong about.

why do you think people are converting to Allah's way?

The same reason they are converting to Jesus's way and Buddha's way, etc. They want to believe in something, and convince themselves that this religion or that religion is true. Islam is not special in that regard. It's just another false religion, only more dangerous than most.

its coz they know man made justice system let them down. im not saying all man made laws are bollocks, most if you look at these stupid bills they keep passing and then changing every two minutes, then if you are honest, you can see its all bollocks. thats why Allah revelaed His best laws to prophet mohammed and he gave them to humanity.

Allah thought man made laws were bollocks, so instead of telling everyone about the good laws, he picked some ignorant, illiterate tribal leader in the desert to hand down his laws and then proceed to force people to convert though threat, coercion and bloodshed? One might think an all powerful deity, heck even just a really powerful deity, would have been able to relay the "perfect laws" to each of us, and not require 1300 years years of Islamic "Jihad."

if you wanna be slave to man made laws, you go ahead.

I don't want to be slave to anything, but especially Islam. That would be the worst. That would be like making a dog or pig one's slavemaster. It would be embarrassing.

but i thin its pretty stupid. you would be thick to leave divine laws and submit yourself to lying politicians who cheat and rob you all the time. remember the british expenses scandal last year? hahahahaha.

That's what people do, and the religious folk are right at the top of the list. Your Imams are lying sacks of shit who live on frauds and duperies.

[Animavore]

Actually maybe he has a point.
News just in: Promiscuous women are the cause of earthquakes.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD9F66BTO0

BEIRUT — A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear revealing clothing and behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes.

Iran is one of the world's most earthquake-prone countries, and the cleric's unusual explanation for why the earth shakes follows a prediction by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that a quake is certain to hit Tehran and that many of its 12 million inhabitants should relocate.

"Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young men astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which (consequently) increases earthquakes," Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was quoted as saying by Iranian media.

Women in the Islamic Republic are required by law to cover from head to toe, but many, especially the young, ignore some of the more strict codes and wear tight coats and scarves pulled back that show much of the hair.

"What can we do to avoid being buried under the rubble?" Sedighi asked during a prayer sermon Friday. "There is no other solution but to take refuge in religion and to adapt our lives to Islam's moral codes."

Seismologists have warned for at least two decades that it is likely the sprawling capital will be struck by a catastrophic quake in the near future.

Some experts have even suggested Iran should move its capital to a less seismically active location. Tehran straddles scores of fault lines, including one more than 50 miles (80 kilometers) long, though it has not suffered a major quake since 1830.

In 2003, a powerful earthquake hit the southern city of Bam, killing 31,000 people — about a quarter of that city's population — and destroying its ancient mud-built citadel.

"A divine authority told me to tell the people to make a general repentance. Why? Because calamities threaten us," said Sedighi, Tehran's acting Friday prayer leader.

Referring to the violence that followed last June's disputed presidential election, he said, "The political earthquake that occurred was a reaction to some of the actions (that took place). And now, if a natural earthquake hits Tehran, no one will be able to confront such a calamity but God's power, only God's power. ... So let's not disappoint God."

The Iranian government and its security forces have been locked in a bloody battle with a large opposition movement that accuses Ahmadinejad of winning last year's vote by fraud.

Ahmadinejad made his quake prediction two weeks ago but said he could not give an exact date. He acknowledged that he could not order all of Tehran's 12 million people to evacuate. "But provisions have to be made. ... At least 5 million should leave Tehran so it is less crowded," the president said.

Minister of Welfare and Social Security Sadeq Mahsooli said prayers and pleas for forgiveness were the best "formulas to repel earthquakes."

"We cannot invent a system that prevents earthquakes, but God has created this system and that is to avoid sins, to pray, to seek forgiveness, pay alms and self-sacrifice," Mahsooli said.

[Ayaan]

I thought plate tectonics was responsible for earthquakes.

[Animavore]

I thought plate tectonics was responsible for earthquakes.

No. Slut-tectonic.

[MrFungus420]

MrFungus420:
Now, can you answer the question?
Do YOU (yes, you personally) think that stoning rape victims to death is a moral act.

you dont know nothing about morals. so leave it out mate.

I know that I am more moral than your god is, fuckhead. And I am definitely more moral than that pedophile that you call a prophet is.

And if you are insulted by being called a fuckhead, too damn bad.

You have been told that there are people who find your use of "mate" to be insulting.

[leo-rcc]

I thought plate tectonics was responsible for earthquakes.

No. Slut-tectonic.

Meanwhile volcanoes approve of naked people. Iceland bans stripclubs, and a few weeks later a volcano erupts. That can't be a coincidence.

[Pappa]

MrFungus420:
Now, can you answer the question?
Do YOU (yes, you personally) think that stoning rape victims to death is a moral act.

you dont know nothing about morals. so leave it out mate.

I know that I am more moral than your god is, fuckhead. And I am definitely more moral than that pedophile that you call a prophet is.

And if you are insulted by being called a fuckhead, too damn bad.

You have been told that there are people who find your use of "mate" to be insulting.

MrFungus, calling another member a "fuckhead" is against the rules. Please refrain from doing it.

[charlou]

you dont know nothing about morals. so leave it out mate.

I hope your mother, your sister and your daughter get raped and stoned to death for it.

I know that I am more moral than your god is, fuckhead.

[Animavore]

What? It would teach him a lesson
I thought Muslims believed in harsh lessons from Allah?

[charlou]

Coito ergo sum:
What about a woman who is not truly raped? Is it o.k. to stone her?

if she aint been truly raped that means she is making it up.
then its up to the islamic judge to do what he wants with her. sometimes he will just give her only 100 lashes. but i think he will stone her coz thats what rules say. law is the law. is she is lying just to ket the boys in trouble, then she will be buried in the sand up to her shoulders and then she will be rocked. people will throw large stone to stone her to death. thats the islamic law for lying about sex. muslims take sex very seriously you know. we dont joke about it. you get stoned for screwing around.

:pissed:

In the Muslim culture you're describing it's got fuck all to do with whether her testimony is true, but whether it's considered valid. In the Muslim culture you're describing it's not considered valid. Her word is nothing. This culture considers women and sex in an extremely misogynistic light. Are you defending this culture? If you are, I find your views highly offensive.

[charlou]

[youtubeuk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDtisgnSZCc[/youtubeuk]

[MrFungus420]

MrFungus420:
Now, can you answer the question?
Do YOU (yes, you personally) think that stoning rape victims to death is a moral act.

you dont know nothing about morals. so leave it out mate.

I know that I am more moral than your god is, fuckhead. And I am definitely more moral than that pedophile that you call a prophet is.

And if you are insulted by being called a fuckhead, too damn bad.

You have been told that there are people who find your use of "mate" to be insulting.

MrFungus, calling another member a "fuckhead" is against the rules. Please refrain from doing it.

No problem. If I may ask...What about mandelson's continued use of a word that he has been told that others find offensive and insulting?

[Pappa]

MrFungus420:
Now, can you answer the question?
Do YOU (yes, you personally) think that stoning rape victims to death is a moral act.

you dont know nothing about morals. so leave it out mate.

I know that I am more moral than your god is, fuckhead. And I am definitely more moral than that pedophile that you call a prophet is.

And if you are insulted by being called a fuckhead, too damn bad.

You have been told that there are people who find your use of "mate" to be insulting.

MrFungus, calling another member a "fuckhead" is against the rules. Please refrain from doing it.

No problem. If I may ask...What about mandelson's continued use of a word that he has been told that others find offensive and insulting?

I personally think they are making more fuss out of it than is necessary. The staff haven't really discussed it, presumably because they don't see a significant issue with him using the word "mate".... though, they may disagree.

[Trolldor]

Don't place a value on a word because of its definition, but because of how it is used.

[Thinking Aloud]

Don't place a value on a word because of its definition, but because of how it is used.

It's OK to be mildly patronising and deprecating towards others on this forum, repeatedly, at length and ad nauseum, even if they find it insulting or otherwise offensive, as long as you do it reasonably politely and don't actually break any rules - after all, some of us are enjoying all the excitement. However calling someone a name with the f-word in it is not allowed.