ISIS Responds to Pope Francis.

[Feck]

Sectarian WTF many of the sects of Islam are happy to murder other muslims ,and have been since the death of PaedoMo this illustrates one of the other problems Pisslam has ....
Islam is a lie, not just the basis of Islam but the way it's history is taught to muslims . Islam IS despicable, the fact Atheists are treating it like some holy cow embarrasses me .
In fact what atheists who will not learn, read and comment are doing is leaving the whole field open to the Racist right-wing (and this is the bit that really grinds my gears These people will therefore Label anyone who debates, mocks or takes a stand in ANY WAY as a racist right-wing bigot )
There are 1.7 billion victims of this evil personality cult if you choose to ignore that, if you choose to label anyone who repeats this as a right-winger or a racist or LOL a sectarian ,If you choose never to say a word ,if you claim it's all politics
and nothing to do with the 'religion of peace' then I fucking despair .
If someone says Hitler was the best of men whose words and actions were perfect do they not have to answer for the morality of that ideology ? why does this not apply to Islam ?
I fuckin HATE Nazis why is it can say that and nobody calls me a racist ?

[Forty Two]

There is nothing racist about saying Islam is a piece of shit, because most Muslims, first of all, are not of a particular race.

You're attacking a whole group under the umbrella of Islam (not even a single thing) when you say something like that.

No, because Islam is not a group of people. It's a set of beliefs. It's like saying Christianity is false and a poor moral guide. it's not one thing either, but so what? It's a set of beliefs with a number of denominations.

You certainly can't be speaking about the ideology because ideologies can't be pieces of shit. They can only be followed by such.

No, the ideology - the set of belief - or sets of belief - are shit. Pieces of shit. It's an awful, horrible set of beliefs.

It's no more racist than saying that a particular philosophy sucks.

But that's not what you're saying. You're saying a whole group is a piece of shit.

No, that is exactly what I'm saying. Like if I said that Stoicism is a shit philosophy, a poor moral guide, and an awful set of beliefs. If stoics are upset by that, they can fuck off. It's not racist. I'm saying the religion is a piece of shit. Each sect within the religion are separate pieces of shit, if you will.

And, even if it was an attack on a group, that group is not a race. The adherents to Islam do not fall within a particular race. Arabs are white. Some Muslims are Asian and others Caucasian. Some are African. What "race" is a Muslim?

Islam is false. Islam, in any of its known forms, is a very poor guide to morality. It is wish-thinking, and a fantastical delusion. Allah is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

But that's not what you're saying. You're saying a whole group is a piece of shit.

No, I'm saying the whole religion is a piece of shit. I'm not saying anything about individual Muslims. I have Muslim friends who don't adhere to the religion - they're just nominally Muslim, like a lot of nominal Christians. I don't believe they are pieces of shit. Their religion is false, a poor moral guide, and a set of outdated, antiquated, often racist, sexist and anti-gay.

Fuck Islam. It's adherents ought to stop adhering to it, because it's horseshit.

It's sectarian.

Indeed. Of or relating to a religious sect. In other words, shit. False. A lie. A demeaning falsehood that infects humanity to its very core, insulting our humanity and depriving humanity of human dignity. Relying on faith, it asks us to believe without evidence, and is the enemy of reason and truth.

And, "sectarian?" Calling it bullshit or the like is not "sectarian." Islam is "sectarian." Ridiculing Islam is not sectarian.

You're not just calling it bullshit, or simply ridiculing it, though. You're calling for its adherents to abandon it because you, in your bigotry, believe they should. You want it and them eradicated. Not even any toleration of it simply changing, like Christianity has done.[/quote]

That's not bigotry. It's an argument over ideas. The ideas within Islam suck. I want people to abandon sucky ideas.

Not all Christianity has changed -- how come you are comfortable referring to "Christianity" as a single thing, but you immediately caution about Islam not being a single thing?

There is nothing wrong with calling out bad ideas, and Islam is a mother-lode of bad ideas. If you're going to call it bigotry to oppose Islam for its bad ideas, then do you call it bigotry to oppose Naziism, fascism, communism, Scientology, the Prince Philip Movement, The Church of Euthanasia, Nuwabianism, Raelianism, etc., and call them pieces of shit?

[Animavore]

You lost the argument at "evil". Since when do atheists believe in that superstitious shit?

Fucking bigots and you don't even see it.

[Forty Two]

You lost the argument at "evil". Since when do atheists believe in that superstitious shit?

Fucking bigots and you don't even see it.

Whoa!!!! "believe in that superstitious shit?" There you go, attacking an entire "group!" You're attacking atheists who believe in superstitious shit! You're attacking all wooatheist! Racist!

You're not saying that their ideas are bad! You're saying THEY are, individually, bad!

Right?

Or, do you get to attack beliefs but people can't attack Islamic beliefs or else they are racists?

[Animavore]

how come you are comfortable referring to "Christianity" as a single thing,

Am I?

[Forty Two]

how come you are comfortable referring to "Christianity" as a single thing,

Am I?

You did. You referred to "it" as "Christianity" without qualification. I didn't see you make sure your readers were cautioned not to lump Christians in one group, and there was no parentheses there with the words "not a single thing" (like you did for the Islam reference)....

Not your difference in approach to each religion. It's an example of what many people do -- kid gloves for Islam.

[Tyrannical]

I wonder if we had a mass Nuremberg trial for radical islam how many we'd have to hang? Thousands or millions? Or just some number in between.

[Animavore]

how come you are comfortable referring to "Christianity" as a single thing,

Am I?

You did. You referred to "it" as "Christianity" without qualification. I didn't see you make sure your readers were cautioned not to lump Christians in one group, and there was no parentheses there with the words "not a single thing" (like you did for the Islam reference)....

Not your difference in approach to each religion. It's an example of what many people do -- kid gloves for Islam.

That's because I didn't think I'd need to qualify Christianity as a single thing to a cultural Christian audience. I find it hard to believe you don't already know this. You don't, however, seem to already know this about Islam, which is why I felt it needed to be spelt out.

As for kid gloves... I treat Islam like any other religion. I criticise the ideas no problem to me, as well as their texts, I love pointing out contradictions and absurdities like any other religion. It's not that I'm putting on kid gloves, it's that you are putting on boxing gloves and coming down harder on Islam than any other religion, and I see no reason for that other than prejudice and bigotry which has rubbed off on you from your culture. You use phrases like "Islam is a piece of shit", but I've never heard you say say anything like that about Christianity with such venom. Usually in exchanges I've seen you with with Seth, for instance, you will argue points and why you don't believe this or that, and why you think this or that idea has no merit, without recourse to uncritically blasting an entire doctrine in a sweeping statement which doesn't examine any of it.

[Forty Two]

how come you are comfortable referring to "Christianity" as a single thing,

Am I?

You did. You referred to "it" as "Christianity" without qualification. I didn't see you make sure your readers were cautioned not to lump Christians in one group, and there was no parentheses there with the words "not a single thing" (like you did for the Islam reference)....

Not your difference in approach to each religion. It's an example of what many people do -- kid gloves for Islam.

That's because I didn't think I'd need to qualify Christianity as a single thing to a cultural Christian audience. I find it hard to believe you don't already know this. You don't, however, seem to already know this about Islam, which is why I felt it needed to be spelt out.

Everyone knows that Islam has divisions, too, and that not every single adherent of any religion adheres to each principle of the religion. Certainly here on this website that's the case - yet you saw the need to clarify it here relative to Islam.

How in the world do you come to the ridiculous notion that I don't "seem to already know this about Islam." I've referred to islam having sects and factions. Islam remains, like Christianity, a set of beliefs that can be discussed. It doesn't have to be spelled out on every reference that "not all" Muslims believe everything the same.

As for kid gloves... I treat Islam like any other religion. I criticise the ideas no problem to me, as well as their texts, I love pointing out contradictions and absurdities like any other religion.

It does not appear that you treat it the same, because you don't talk about it the same way.

[
It's not that I'm putting on kid gloves, it's that you are putting on boxing gloves and coming down harder on Islam than any other religion,

Not at all. I have said the same thing about Christianity. Although, there are degrees to everything, and not all religions are as bad as all others. Buddhism and Jainism don't nearly present as many problems as Islam and Christianity.

[
and I see no reason for that other than prejudice and bigotry which has rubbed off on you from your culture. You use phrases like "Islam is a piece of shit", but I've never heard you say say anything like that about Christianity with such venom.

Christianity is a piece of shit. It's false. It's a poor moral guide. It is based on faith, which is the enemy of reason, and it insults us at a most basic level.

Usually in exchanges I've seen you with with Seth, for instance, you will argue points and why you don't believe this or that, and why you think this or that idea has no merit, without recourse to uncritically blasting an entire doctrine in a sweeping statement which doesn't examine any of it.

I do both.

[Animavore]

Fair 'nuff.

[pErvinalia]

Again, it simply means that a variety of other motivations can be joined to the primary religious one. I sometimes wonder why a certain political branch of atheism is so keen to deny a twisted religious motivation as a significant component of islamic terrorism...

...because they've placed Muslims high up on the progressive stack. Muslims, they think, are an oppressed group, being marginalized by white, patriarchal, capitalist oppressors. That's why they don't have a problem saying "Christianity sucks," but they qualify and hedge when asked to confirm that "Islam sucks." I've even seen activist atheists supporting mosque construction under the same circumstances where they would be outspoken against church construction. When it comes to Islam, the fight is about oppressing a minority. When it comes to Christianity, it's about woo, and religious nuttery, and the Christians are the oppressors, so knocking them down is punching up.

In some instances this is probably the case. However, much of the angst comes because the most vocal anti-islamists, certainly here in Oz, are racist red-necks whose anti-muslim fervour is inextricably connected to their racism. In an understandable effort not to get into bed with those idiots, the left sometimes lets the pendulum swing too far the other way...

That doesn't explain why guys like Sam Harris get lambasted by the left over the Islam issue.

Probably because he's an idiot.

[pErvinalia]

Again, it simply means that a variety of other motivations can be joined to the primary religious one. I sometimes wonder why a certain political branch of atheism is so keen to deny a twisted religious motivation as a significant component of islamic terrorism...

There's some truth to Coito's never ending parody of the "progressive stack".

It's not a parody. It's an accurate description of what the progressive stack. It only sounds like a parody because I'm saying it and you know I think it's horseshit. When progressives apply the progressive stack, it sounds all reasonable to them, because they ascribe to identity politics.

I just meant that you go on and on about it. And you do parody it, it unrelated topics.

I'm about to find myself in another fight with some of my lefty mates on facebook. I've been sidestepping around a topic from a mate on the burkini ban. But got a bit sick of all the nonsense this morning and brought up the point that a significant part of the reason why France and others pursue burqa bans is because they view the burqa as a symbol (and indeed a tool) of oppression of women. I'll check back in a while to view all the angst and how women actually love wearing the burka.

[pErvinalia]

There is nothing racist about saying Islam is a piece of shit, because most Muslims, first of all, are not of a particular race.

You're attacking a whole group under the umbrella of Islam (not even a single thing) when you say something like that.

No, because Islam is not a group of people. It's a set of beliefs. It's like saying Christianity is false and a poor moral guide. it's not one thing either, but so what? It's a set of beliefs with a number of denominations.

You certainly can't be speaking about the ideology because ideologies can't be pieces of shit. They can only be followed by such.

No, the ideology - the set of belief - or sets of belief - are shit. Pieces of shit. It's an awful, horrible set of beliefs.

It's no more racist than saying that a particular philosophy sucks.

But that's not what you're saying. You're saying a whole group is a piece of shit.

No, that is exactly what I'm saying. Like if I said that Stoicism is a shit philosophy, a poor moral guide, and an awful set of beliefs. If stoics are upset by that, they can fuck off. It's not racist. I'm saying the religion is a piece of shit. Each sect within the religion are separate pieces of shit, if you will.

And, even if it was an attack on a group, that group is not a race. The adherents to Islam do not fall within a particular race. Arabs are white. Some Muslims are Asian and others Caucasian. Some are African. What "race" is a Muslim?

Islam is false. Islam, in any of its known forms, is a very poor guide to morality. It is wish-thinking, and a fantastical delusion. Allah is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

But that's not what you're saying. You're saying a whole group is a piece of shit.

No, I'm saying the whole religion is a piece of shit. I'm not saying anything about individual Muslims. I have Muslim friends who don't adhere to the religion - they're just nominally Muslim, like a lot of nominal Christians. I don't believe they are pieces of shit. Their religion is false, a poor moral guide, and a set of outdated, antiquated, often racist, sexist and anti-gay.

Fuck Islam. It's adherents ought to stop adhering to it, because it's horseshit.

It's sectarian.

Indeed. Of or relating to a religious sect. In other words, shit. False. A lie. A demeaning falsehood that infects humanity to its very core, insulting our humanity and depriving humanity of human dignity. Relying on faith, it asks us to believe without evidence, and is the enemy of reason and truth.

And, "sectarian?" Calling it bullshit or the like is not "sectarian." Islam is "sectarian." Ridiculing Islam is not sectarian.

You're not just calling it bullshit, or simply ridiculing it, though. You're calling for its adherents to abandon it because you, in your bigotry, believe they should. You want it and them eradicated. Not even any toleration of it simply changing, like Christianity has done.

That's not bigotry. It's an argument over ideas. The ideas within Islam suck. I want people to abandon sucky ideas.

Not all Christianity has changed -- how come you are comfortable referring to "Christianity" as a single thing, but you immediately caution about Islam not being a single thing?

There is nothing wrong with calling out bad ideas, and Islam is a mother-lode of bad ideas. If you're going to call it bigotry to oppose Islam for its bad ideas, then do you call it bigotry to oppose Naziism, fascism, communism, Scientology, the Prince Philip Movement, The Church of Euthanasia, Nuwabianism, Raelianism, etc., and call them pieces of shit?[/quote]

42 is right here, Ani. And it's not often you are going to hear those words out of my mouth.

[pErvinalia]

Again, it simply means that a variety of other motivations can be joined to the primary religious one. I sometimes wonder why a certain political branch of atheism is so keen to deny a twisted religious motivation as a significant component of islamic terrorism...

There's some truth to Coito's never ending parody of the "progressive stack".

It's not a parody. It's an accurate description of what the progressive stack. It only sounds like a parody because I'm saying it and you know I think it's horseshit. When progressives apply the progressive stack, it sounds all reasonable to them, because they ascribe to identity politics.

I just meant that you go on and on about it. And you do parody it, it unrelated topics.

I'm about to find myself in another fight with some of my lefty mates on facebook. I've been sidestepping around a topic from a mate on the burkini ban. But got a bit sick of all the nonsense this morning and brought up the point that a significant part of the reason why France and others pursue burqa bans is because they view the burqa as a symbol (and indeed a tool) of oppression of women. I'll check back in a while to view all the angst and how women actually love wearing the burka.

It's started..

[JimC]

rEv wrote:

42 is right here, Ani. And it's not often you are going to hear those words out of my mouth.

And earlier, people were saying that Islam deserved criticism because, like other ideologies or movements, it is a font of bad ideas. Certainly true, but the criticism is reasonably intensified because those bad ideas are currently being translated into violent action to an extent much greater than other religions. The only proviso is not allowing the critique of Islam to descend into automatic criticism of all muslims, rather than those actually doing the violence.