The Myth of the Moderate Muslim

[JimC]

Fuck off you terrorist apologist.

Where did I apologise for terrorism? Quote the apology.

I don't care if every moderate muslim apologises for the terrorists, the dead will still be dead and the injured will still be injured. In the West most religions can mostly rub along with each other, there is one fly in the ointment guess who. This is not a coincidence as it is a feature not a bug of the whole religion. Nobody wants their local muslim shopkeeper punched in the face or a hindu attacked in the street because some BNP member can't tell the difference. Though Islam is the problem and it needs to be dealt with what ever you liberals think (aka you can't reason with the Qur'an.)

I agree that Islam is an issue, in that, in this current age, it is virtually the only religion that generates violent fanatics. At heart, it is a raw, barbaric religion, no question, although most of its adherents quietly ignore the potential violence it contains, and simply get on with everyday life. However, the question becomes one of how to deal with it, given the fact that it is truly only a minority of muslims who follow the jihad path. If the west acts in a prejudicial way against muslims in general, it is highly likely that the number of radicalised young muslims prepared to kill infidels will rise.

In the end, the hope is that, like christianity before it, it will be neutered as a more educated population arises, and it will become just one other quirky faith amongst many...

[DaveDodo007]

Fuck off you terrorist apologist.

Where did I apologise for terrorism? Quote the apology.

I don't care if every moderate muslim apologises for the terrorists, the dead will still be dead and the injured will still be injured. In the West most religions can mostly rub along with each other, there is one fly in the ointment guess who. This is not a coincidence as it is a feature not a bug of the whole religion. Nobody wants their local muslim shopkeeper punched in the face or a hindu attacked in the street because some BNP member can't tell the difference. Though Islam is the problem and it needs to be dealt with what ever you liberals think (aka you can't reason with the Qur'an.)

I agree that Islam is an issue, in that, in this current age, it is virtually the only religion that generates violent fanatics. At heart, it is a raw, barbaric religion, no question, although most of its adherents quietly ignore the potential violence it contains, and simply get on with everyday life. However, the question becomes one of how to deal with it, given the fact that it is truly only a minority of muslims who follow the jihad path. If the west acts in a prejudicial way against muslims in general, it is highly likely that the number of radicalised young muslims prepared to kill infidels will rise.

In the end, the hope is that, like christianity before it, it will be neutered as a more educated population arises, and it will become just one other quirky faith amongst many...

I would just be happy if politicians and the media stop saying Islamic state are not true muslims. Show me a country that adheres to the doctrine and scriptures of the Qur'an that the Islamic state does. The lies and propaganda are beyond pathetic now.

[JimC]

DaveDodo007 wrote:

I would just be happy if politicians and the media stop saying Islamic state are not true muslims.

I agree, they are as much a muslim as any other group...

But the fact remains that non-militant, law-abiding muslims in the west need to be treated on their merits, and not vilified for the actions of another group of militant muslims...

[mistermack]

DaveDodo007 wrote:

I would just be happy if politicians and the media stop saying Islamic state are not true muslims.

I agree, they are as much a muslim as any other group...

But the fact remains that non-militant, law-abiding muslims in the west need to be treated on their merits, and not vilified for the actions of another group of militant muslims...

That's right.
After all, muslims treat all atheists equally.

[rainbow]

Fuck off you terrorist apologist.

Where did I apologise for terrorism? Quote the apology.

I don't care if every moderate muslim apologises for the terrorists, the dead will still be dead and the injured will still be injured. In the West most religions can mostly rub along with each other, there is one fly in the ointment guess who. This is not a coincidence as it is a feature not a bug of the whole religion. Nobody wants their local muslim shopkeeper punched in the face or a hindu attacked in the street because some BNP member can't tell the difference. Though Islam is the problem and it needs to be dealt with what ever you liberals think (aka you can't reason with the Qur'an.)

I agree that Islam is an issue, in that, in this current age, it is virtually the only religion that generates violent fanatics. At heart, it is a raw, barbaric religion, no question, although most of its adherents quietly ignore the potential violence it contains, and simply get on with everyday life. However, the question becomes one of how to deal with it, given the fact that it is truly only a minority of muslims who follow the jihad path. If the west acts in a prejudicial way against muslims in general, it is highly likely that the number of radicalised young muslims prepared to kill infidels will rise.

In the end, the hope is that, like christianity before it, it will be neutered as a more educated population arises, and it will become just one other quirky faith amongst many...

I would just be happy if politicians and the media stop saying Islamic state are not true muslims. Show me a country that adheres to the doctrine and scriptures of the Qur'an that the Islamic state does.

Saudi Arabia.
...a country that Merka supplies with arms.

You didn't think your statements through, did you DaveDildo.

[Scot Dutchy]

[Seth]

You changed the subject first. Anyway most Muslims are not moderate and not extreme. Their religion is presented in a extreme manner by manipulative agents. Easy to do given its hate filled content. They are mostly illiterate like you say and simply repeat the vocalisations of their elders. This is both good and bad. After the wars of conquest by the world powers the middle east can be modernised rapidly...like Japan was. Unfortunately the bad news is it will take full on confrontation of both arms of Islam at the same time to guarantee total defeat...with some risk of losing, albeit less than imagined.

The critical difference between Japan, Germany and Islam is that while temporal dictatorships, like Stalin, Hitler or Emperor Hirohito can be taken down and replaced with something else because they are cults of personality it's much, much harder to take down a cult-of-personality dictator who is already dead but has the imprimus of a deity. Hirohito was a "god" to the Japanese people, but a temporal and mortal one, whereas Mohammed never claimed to be a god, just the messenger of God who never claimed immortality, just that he was the conduit for the commandments of Allah, so when he died his influence did not evaporate with his death and now it's nearly impossible to do away with the cult of personality around Mohammed and Allah without simply eliminating all of its adherents and ensuring that no new adherents are raised into that cult, the short name for which is "genocide."

[cronus]

You changed the subject first. Anyway most Muslims are not moderate and not extreme. Their religion is presented in a extreme manner by manipulative agents. Easy to do given its hate filled content. They are mostly illiterate like you say and simply repeat the vocalisations of their elders. This is both good and bad. After the wars of conquest by the world powers the middle east can be modernised rapidly...like Japan was. Unfortunately the bad news is it will take full on confrontation of both arms of Islam at the same time to guarantee total defeat...with some risk of losing, albeit less than imagined.

The critical difference between Japan, Germany and Islam is that while temporal dictatorships, like Stalin, Hitler or Emperor Hirohito can be taken down and replaced with something else because they are cults of personality it's much, much harder to take down a cult-of-personality dictator who is already dead but has the imprimus of a deity. Hirohito was a "god" to the Japanese people, but a temporal and mortal one, whereas Mohammed never claimed to be a god, just the messenger of God who never claimed immortality, just that he was the conduit for the commandments of Allah, so when he died his influence did not evaporate with his death and now it's nearly impossible to do away with the cult of personality around Mohammed and Allah without simply eliminating all of its adherents and ensuring that no new adherents are raised into that cult, the short name for which is "genocide."

That's why we need the cruelty of a pure fire cultural invasion to really change the middle east Seth. I'm talking genuine cultural imperialism not seen since the British ruled the world. I'm sure America is upto the task if it elects the right president. As a parent nation we can only advise, but strength is there to be used. Turn their religious places into glass, look what they have done to the sacred world-culture historic archaeology - what they threaten to do to the Pyramids and recall 9/11. Their Achilles heel is Mecca....own that and you own Islam.

[Seth]

Fuck off you terrorist apologist.

Where did I apologise for terrorism? Quote the apology.

I don't care if every moderate muslim apologises for the terrorists, the dead will still be dead and the injured will still be injured. In the West most religions can mostly rub along with each other, there is one fly in the ointment guess who. This is not a coincidence as it is a feature not a bug of the whole religion. Nobody wants their local muslim shopkeeper punched in the face or a hindu attacked in the street because some BNP member can't tell the difference. Though Islam is the problem and it needs to be dealt with what ever you liberals think (aka you can't reason with the Qur'an.)

I agree that Islam is an issue, in that, in this current age, it is virtually the only religion that generates violent fanatics. At heart, it is a raw, barbaric religion, no question, although most of its adherents quietly ignore the potential violence it contains, and simply get on with everyday life. However, the question becomes one of how to deal with it, given the fact that it is truly only a minority of muslims who follow the jihad path. If the west acts in a prejudicial way against muslims in general, it is highly likely that the number of radicalised young muslims prepared to kill infidels will rise.

In the end, the hope is that, like christianity before it, it will be neutered as a more educated population arises, and it will become just one other quirky faith amongst many...

One hopes so, but the problem is that whereas modern Christianity eschews the Old Testament commandments because of the New Testament repeal of those commandments and therefore Christians don't stone women or do any of the things you Atheists so often accuse them of doing (in your Wayback Machine fallacies), Islam has no Jesus to amend Mohammed's vicious and evil commandments to kill and enslave others and so to be a Muslim, whether you actively practice jihad or not, you will always favor and excuse those who do follow those radical commandments more radically than you do over the Koran-defined infidels and their right not to be forced into Islamic behaviors. Therefore, to be any sort of obedient Muslim you will necessarily tolerate and ignore those radical elements inside your own religion because to "out" them because they threaten infidels is to violate the fundamental precepts of your religion and set yourself outside of Islam as it is taught. And to do that in Islam is a literal death sentence. So those who speak out against jihad easily become apostates and enemies of Islam and get dead. This makes it obviously better to simply remain silent on the subject, which can be justified within the tenets of Islam, and lie about your true beliefs with respect to the establishment of universal Islam and the Caliphate, denying that you support jihad to achieve this while privately approving of anything done in the name of Islam to forward the cause of Islam and the Caliphate.

In essence, until the majority of Islam openly and vocally refutes the entire concept of Jihad, infidels and the Caliphate and ultimate worldwide victory of Islam, Islam will ALWAYS be infused with violence against all non-muslims. And that means either we just keep on fighting the radical elements forever, or we kill them all and prevent them from raising up new generations of radicals, neither of which are likely to happen.

So, until Muslims themselves tire of being oppressed and marginalized because of their association with and acceptance of radical jihadism and they themselves rise up, put down the radicals, and declare as a tenet of their religion that they give up their pretensions towards universal Muslim rule, we will be at war with Islam.

And that they are highly unlikely to ever do.

[Seth]

DaveDodo007 wrote:

I would just be happy if politicians and the media stop saying Islamic state are not true muslims.

I agree, they are as much a muslim as any other group...

But the fact remains that non-militant, law-abiding muslims in the west need to be treated on their merits, and not vilified for the actions of another group of militant muslims...

They aren't being vilified for the actions of other militant Muslims, they are being vilified for their own deliberate and calculated INACTION in suppressing those militant elements, as well they should be. They create the problem, they must correct the problem or be marginalized for not doing so.

[Seth]

You changed the subject first. Anyway most Muslims are not moderate and not extreme. Their religion is presented in a extreme manner by manipulative agents. Easy to do given its hate filled content. They are mostly illiterate like you say and simply repeat the vocalisations of their elders. This is both good and bad. After the wars of conquest by the world powers the middle east can be modernised rapidly...like Japan was. Unfortunately the bad news is it will take full on confrontation of both arms of Islam at the same time to guarantee total defeat...with some risk of losing, albeit less than imagined.

The critical difference between Japan, Germany and Islam is that while temporal dictatorships, like Stalin, Hitler or Emperor Hirohito can be taken down and replaced with something else because they are cults of personality it's much, much harder to take down a cult-of-personality dictator who is already dead but has the imprimus of a deity. Hirohito was a "god" to the Japanese people, but a temporal and mortal one, whereas Mohammed never claimed to be a god, just the messenger of God who never claimed immortality, just that he was the conduit for the commandments of Allah, so when he died his influence did not evaporate with his death and now it's nearly impossible to do away with the cult of personality around Mohammed and Allah without simply eliminating all of its adherents and ensuring that no new adherents are raised into that cult, the short name for which is "genocide."

That's why we need the cruelty of a pure fire cultural invasion to really change the middle east Seth. I'm talking genuine cultural imperialism not seen since the British ruled the world. I'm sure America is upto the task if it elects the right president. As a parent nation we can only advise, but strength is there to be used. Turn their religious places into glass, look what they have done to the sacred world-culture historic archaeology - what they threaten to do to the Pyramids and recall 9/11. Their Achilles heel is Mecca....own that and you own Islam.

I think Europe should take the lead on this one. America has spent too much of our lives and treasure trying to be the World Police for my tastes. I say America sits back and lets the combined forces of Europe actually fully prosecute a fucking war, something they haven't actually ever done. That's why I'm glad to see the terrorists focusing on France and Belgium...next should be Germany, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland and all the other central European nations, followed by Eastern Europe and Russia. Maybe then the cowardly cocksuckers of Europe and Asia and elsewhere will actually man-up and come together and actually go to war, like with tanks and troops on the ground, and I don't mean a token few hundred or thousand troops, I mean something on the order of a MILLION soldiers from the combined nations invading the Middle East (including Mecca) and doing what armies do to pacify fractious and dangerous cultures, which may include permanent colonial stewardship of Muslim nations using whatever force is required to keep Muslims in line and peaceable.

I'm not interested in spending my tax money on fixing Europe's problems ever again. But, if necessary, I'm happy to spend enough to, as you say, turn Mecca into radioactive glass if they fuck with the US.

It's long past time you folks in Europe stood up on your hind legs and protected yourselves against a common enemy.

[Jason]

Now now. The US bulled its way to the poker table; and there's no backing out after you staked your entire pile of chips, what.., 70 years back?

That's not how things work Seth and you know it.

[Seth]

Now now. The US bulled its way to the poker table; and there's no backing out after you staked your entire pile of chips, what.., 70 years back?

That's not how things work Seth and you know it.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run.

We quit.

You're all on your own now, and the fuse on that petard is looking a bit short and getting shorter rapidly. Enjoy the ride!

[Jason]

C'est la Vie est la vie est dure..

I suppose it's once again up to the Canadians to prop up Crown and Country until the Americans find their backbone. It's not the first time, or even the second.

ETA: But just between us boys here at the UN, we Canadians are getting just a wee bit tired of it. We'd like a pretty lady of our own you know.

[Seth]

C'est la Vie est la vie est dure..

I suppose it's once again up to the Canadians to prop up Crown and Country until the Americans find their backbone. It's not the first time, or even the second.

ETA: But just between us boys here at the UN, we Canadians are getting just a wee bit tired of it. We'd like a pretty lady of our own you know.

Fine by me, for all they are worth, which isn't much.

We've got plenty of backbone, we're just tired of using it to pull your sorry asses out of the fire and then end up being vilified for doing so. So fuck all y'all, you can go it alone this time.