A Return To Pascals Wager

[Svartalf]

I can't have faith in a deity that lets so much evil and suffering in the world. Either there's no god, or it's the greatest bastard in creation and possibly beyond. Either way, no worship for that.

[Svartalf]

Given that life is exactly such a diamond and I only have one then why not place stakes on a split deal with random takings should I win rather than a straight that'll either leave me with nothing after the game or a winning deal I can't handle on account of false expectations low or high?

In my view, with Pascal's wager you gain precisely zero by believing.

Problem with wagerists is not what they win, but what they believe they stand to win.

[cronus]

Seems likely the God that inhabits this universe is either a incompetent or utter shit if the God exists. I can win another good round with incompetence methinks.

[Audley Strange]

Seems likely the God that inhabits this universe is either a incompetent or utter shit if the God exists. I can win another good round with incompetence methinks.

Not at all, you are only assuming such from an anthropic perspective.

I agree though that Jehovah is a bad fan-fic, a muddled version of the Demi-urge and Ra.

Also I think you should change your forum title to "The Camel Wankerer"

[cronus]

Being anthropic is neither here nor there if God is so smart & powerful. Whilst having a dig at a hypothetical deity who happens to be real might be a good way of being reborn as that camel.....?

[Svartalf]

Hey, spending a life being wanked by the diamond hunter... there might be worse.

[Rum]

There was once a tribe of camel wankers.
They had been told that if they didn't all wank a camel every day the sun would fall from the sky and burn them all dead.
So they kept on wanking a camel a day every day.
And lo and behold the sun did not fall from the sky and burn them all dead.
The camel wanking god is indeed a powerful god!

[cronus]

I'll try to remember that one....

[Audley Strange]

Being anthropic is neither here nor there if God is so smart & powerful. Whilst having a dig at a hypothetical deity who happens to be real might be a good way of being reborn as that camel.....?

You are again presuming things from a human perspective. Since the claim begins that it a non-local sentience that is potent enough to create a universe, it's methods and reasoning could be totally alien and to us, inimical.

[MrFungus420]

There is nothing intrinsically bad about faith. I have no idea if the sun will rise tomorrow.

Really?

You have NO idea if it will happen?

A black hole could sneak into its core and suck it up overnight

Well, ignoring the impossibility of a black hole doing that (to be clear, doing that without us having any sort of advanced notice that it was going to happen), it seems like you are actually saying that you have a very good idea that the Sun will rise tomorrow UNLESS something completely unexpected happens.

I'm willing to bet that you really have a reasoned expectation, based on previous experience and, probably, a basic understanding of why the Sun rises, that the Sun will rise tomorrow.

It is faith that keeps my ordinary perspective and electricity wants manageable.

I don't see any faith in that.

And, whether or not you have faith has no bearing on your energy needs.

If you have faith that the Sun will rise, and the black hole comes around, your faith isn't going to change your energy needs.

So faith isn't really the issue and nor are the precise characteristics of God beyond having absolute control over every aspect of everything and other fairly obvious qualities such as ignoring any rule you can imagine. The ultimate game changer etc...and so on. Surely given my finite prescribed life I'm playing a smart game giving more credence rather than less for the 'wildcard of wildcards?

It still runs into the problem that most of the "gods" out there will damn you for believing in the wrong one.

Islam has a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for atheists. If (and it IS a mighty big "if") Allah grants mercy and the atheist has lead a good and virtuous life, the atheists can go to Heaven. Not so with belief in a "false" god.

So, your odds are best if you are an atheist. You are still damned if most religions are correct, but there are exceptions in some religions for those who do not believe in a god.

[Cormac]

I've not yet heard of a god that didn't want people to believe.

[pedantry]I've not yet heard of people that didn't want you to believe in their putative god.[/pedantry]

A definite improvement.

Thank you!

[cronus]

I've no real issue with others not wanting to win the game really. It does question human intelligence in general but if i was God that would be the very thing to question.

[MiM]

I've not yet heard of a god that didn't want people to believe.

[pedantry]I've not yet heard of people that didn't want you to believe in their putative god.[/pedantry]

A definite improvement.

Thank you!

That's actually a very odd statement to be at an atheist bulletin board I, for one do not want people to believe in my (putative) God. That would be quite insane from an atheist.

[laklak]

I've not yet heard of a god that didn't want people to believe.

Sounds like a deity that Terry Pratchett would come up with. If you believe then you're damned, if you don't believe you're saved. There'd be a priesthood dedicated to convincing everyone that he didn't actually exist.

Damn fine line to walk, being a priest for the Nonexistent God.

[cronus]

I've not yet heard of a god that didn't want people to believe.

[pedantry]I've not yet heard of people that didn't want you to believe in their putative god.[/pedantry]

A definite improvement.

Thank you!

That's actually a very odd statement to be at an atheist bulletin board I, for one do not want people to believe in my (putative) God. That would be quite insane from an atheist.

Rationalia is not in principle atheist....the sane position and the most rational one is to leave all options open and even more so when the stakes are high. In theory this board should attract more agnostics than strict 7.0s.