American religiousness

[Xamonas Chegwé]

People here are trying to figure out what they are, religious or not, that make them rather strident at times.

That would explain why people "identify" as Christian even though they don't read the Bible, go to church, or give all their belongings to the poor.

Yep, it's what they're supposed to say when somebody asks them. They don't have to act christ-like, they just have to say the right things when challenged. No hypocrisy involved, nope, none at all, not a bit. No siree. None at all.

Not sure being religious is defined primarily by going to church and giving your belongings to the poor; more essential are the views as to what happens after we croak up.

... and which other groups of humanity we regard as in need of having their doorbells rung at 8:am on a Sunday morning!

[charlou]

Deersbee, I've often said that America is a country of liars when it comes to religion. One hour in church and 167 hours being nothing at all religious each week. Figure the percentages.

Speaking of percentages, I'm convinced that the US isn't as pious a country as polls suggest. Most people may not be in touch with the notion that they're skeptics, but they nevertheless have very little interest in religion. So when polled, they identify themselves as "Christian" even though they're really nothing of the sort. A great many people who don't even realize they're nonreligious/atheist call themselves Christian because they know no better; they have a tree up in December, might have gone to church a little when they were younger (or still do, out of family habit) but don't buy into the dogma of Christianity in the slightest.

Maiforpeace's recent activity got me thinking about the general outspokenness of Americans and wondering if it will eventually drive more and more people to review their own practices and beliefs, and feel more able to openly acknowledge a secular/atheist world view ...

[Deep Sea Isopod]

That's a statistic that has been used quite often by some atheists to either point and laugh ... or despair ...

You mean we need an excuse?

[DRSB]

You may want to check out this discussion here, this post:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... e-religion

and the responses to it:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cur ... ession-sex
and
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bet ... eism-will-

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's the science on the street that matters here, not the esoteric research in the labs. It's harder to believe in fairies when you have all these electronic gadgets in the house. In the back of the mind you know there's no magic anymore.

You may be right, but although technology and science was pivotal to my rejection of theism, I am not sure how well that works on a broader scale. This is a quote as near to verbatim as I can remember it, and I think it typifies how little the science inherent in electronic gadgets erodes religious sentiments: "God blessed me with this beautiful, new plasma television."

The USA is way more infested with those wonders of technology and science than any northern and central European nations, yet it is more religious than them.

I live here and I've never heard anybody say anything like that.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

People here are trying to figure out what they are, religious or not, that make them rather strident at times.

That would explain why people "identify" as Christian even though they don't read the Bible, go to church, or give all their belongings to the poor.

Yep, it's what they're supposed to say when somebody asks them. They don't have to act christ-like, they just have to say the right things when challenged. No hypocrisy involved, nope, none at all, not a bit. No siree. None at all.

Not sure being religious is defined primarily by going to church and giving your belongings to the poor; more essential are the views as to what happens after we croak up.

Then they need to get a new religion, because the old one is very hot on helping the poor, which they don't, loving the neighbor, which they do when the spouses aren't aroung, and seeking peace on Earth, which, well, this is America, 'nuff said.

[DRSB]

The USA is way more infested with those wonders of technology and science than any northern and central European nations, yet it is more religious than them.

Exactly my point:

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The USA is way more infested with those wonders of technology and science than any northern and central European nations, yet it is more religious than them.

Exactly my point:

My point is that people claim to be religious here, but aren't. They lie. They are conformists, mouthing the words they're expected to say, but damn little more when it comes to religion. That's very thin ice and the reason atheism is making the gains it has to this point. We may hit a cusp soon and the matter will tilt in our favor. I hope, anyway.

[DRSB]

A nation of simulants then, but how do you differentiate? Somebody produces the outward signs of something, how do you know it's only a simulacrum. You produce the outward signs of a bank robbery, and say, "I only simulated", you'll still go to jail.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A nation of simulants then, but how do you differentiate? Somebody produces the outward signs of something, how do you know it's only a simulacrum. You produce the outward signs of a bank robbery, and say, "I only simulated", you'll still go to jail.

Sorting the sheep from the goats is never going to be easy. But every time someone "comes out" as an atheist we have one less liar running around. (On that topic, at least. )

[Hermit]

It's the science on the street that matters here, not the esoteric research in the labs. It's harder to believe in fairies when you have all these electronic gadgets in the house. In the back of the mind you know there's no magic anymore.

You may be right, but although technology and science was pivotal to my rejection of theism, I am not sure how well that works on a broader scale. This is a quote as near to verbatim as I can remember it, and I think it typifies how little the science inherent in electronic gadgets erodes religious sentiments: "God blessed me with this beautiful, new plasma television."

The USA is way more infested with those wonders of technology and science than any northern and central European nations, yet it is more religious than them.

I live here and I've never heard anybody say anything like that.

It's from a Christian forum, and the poster (who was so overjoyed that she included a photograph of her tv) did say she lived in the US.

Also, google for "god blessed me with". I get around 1.4 million hits. Granted, a number of them might be sarcastic or in other ways not to be taken literally, but how many expressions using different words have been uttered, representing the exact same sentiment? "Miracle on the Hudson" for example? What the fuck a pilot's skill in using technology to belly-flop an aeroplane in a river without killing anyone has to do with a god thingy's intervention is beyond my comprehension. Yet that was the sentiment expressed by the headline, and I bet millions who read it all over the world would have been nodding in agreement.

[my_wan]

Deersbee, I've often said that America is a country of liars when it comes to religion. One hour in church and 167 hours being nothing at all religious each week. Figure the percentages.

Speaking of percentages, I'm convinced that the US isn't as pious a country as polls suggest. Most people may not be in touch with the notion that they're skeptics, but they nevertheless have very little interest in religion. So when polled, they identify themselves as "Christian" even though they're really nothing of the sort. A great many people who don't even realize they're nonreligious/atheist call themselves Christian because they know no better; they have a tree up in December, might have gone to church a little when they were younger (or still do, out of family habit) but don't buy into the dogma of Christianity in the slightest.

Good point. I live here in North Georgia, USA, and with some exceptions, I don't see the level of religiosity that is claimed. Even those exceptions tend to mix and match religions without even knowing better. Even a large proportion, if not most, of church goers don't believe Satan is anything more than a allegory.

The thing, in my experience, that leads to high religious poll numbers, is a cultural mythology that rejecting religion is tantamount to rejecting the validity of morality. Hence the pollsters questions are tantamount to: "Do you believe in morality".

Consider Luxembourg for instance, which is 44% atheist. Yet only 22% don't believe in any sort of God, spirits, or life force. Due to cultural differences, this same 22% would get labeled religious in the US. Hence the 22% of the atheist remaining is somewhat closer to the US numbers.

The down side of this is that fundamentalist religious organizations use these statistics create public perceptions about the public that's not really in line with reality, and use it to justify power grabs in government and policy issues. Luckily their largest adversaries are other religious organizations, and even members of their own church. A full half of all "Evangelical Christians" answered in a poll that religious involvement with government is a major problem facing the US. The reality is not the same as the mythology fundamentalist organizations try to perpetuate.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Same thing with the "mega churches". "See the might house the Lord hath built!" And people go there because it's cool to go there, not because of any driving need for religion as far as I can tell. And the megas don't represent the majority of church-going people anyway. The small, get-in/get-out quickly churches are the norm.

[DRSB]

Same thing with the "mega churches". "See the might house the Lord hath built!" And people go there because it's cool to go there, not because of any driving need for religion as far as I can tell. And the megas don't represent the majority of church-going people anyway. The small, get-in/get-out quickly churches are the norm.

Those mega-churches are built on tithed funds. As soon as somebody joins such a church, they start raisin funds and recruiting new members, so yes, it may be cool to go there but it does not come cheap either and people still go.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Same thing with the "mega churches". "See the might house the Lord hath built!" And people go there because it's cool to go there, not because of any driving need for religion as far as I can tell. And the megas don't represent the majority of church-going people anyway. The small, get-in/get-out quickly churches are the norm.

Those mega-churches are built on tithed funds. As soon as somebody joins such a church, they start raisin funds and recruiting new members, so yes, it may be cool to go there but it does not come cheap either and people still go.

Yep, and they eagerly mug for the cameras, then rush home to see if they got caught on film. Those bits get Youtubed and they have bragging rights. It's all a game.