Militant Atheism - need to be more tactically inventive?

[Hermit]

Militant Atheism needs to get on it's knees and suck my pleasuarbly large cock.

Sick and tired of the term and this 'movement'. What happened to simple 'reason'?

The effect of "the light of reason" on our world view is vastly overrated. We all seem to have loads of reason. As Descartes put it somewhat sardonically: "Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have." And yet, what do you see? Societies, the with huge numbers of overwhelmingly poor members are also overwhelmingly superstitious. On the other hand, societies with substantial strata of comfortably off bourgeois members living in democracies tend toward atheism.

Yes, the latter do tend to be well educated and practiced in reasoning, but I put it to you: Can you think of a society without a bourgeois democracy that has a significant population of atheists? Or - to put it another way - the spread of reason is contingent on social structures.

[Feck]

R.e. OP. Personally I have no desire to structure my attitude to those who believe nonsense around my lack of belief in something. If nobody minds I will just be inconsistent, and react according to the mood I am in!

Mostly I have no problems with theists ,as long as they sit at the back of the bus ,don't leer at our Atheist women and don't think we are going to waste money on an education for them that would give them ideas above their station and make them unhappy .

[Trolldor]

Militant Atheism needs to get on it's knees and suck my pleasuarbly large cock.

Sick and tired of the term and this 'movement'. What happened to simple 'reason'?

The effect of "the light of reason" on our world view is vastly overrated. We all seem to have loads of reason. As Descartes put it somewhat sardonically: "Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have." And yet, what do you see? Societies, the with huge numbers of overwhelmingly poor members are also overwhelmingly superstitious. On the other hand, societies with substantial strata of comfortably off bourgeois members living in democracies tend toward atheism.

Yes, the latter do tend to be well educated and practiced in reasoning, but I put it to you: Can you think of a society without a bourgeois democracy that has a significant population of atheists? Or - to put it another way - the spread of reason is contingent on social structures.

Common sense is not reason. It is Assumed knowledge.
Secondly, the spread of any idea is contingent on social structures. Most poorer communities don't have education, and where they do it is provided by religious institutions.
Perhaps these so called 'instituions' for reason might want to look at providing support without an agenda? Like many Christian charities do - and yes, there are Christian charities who provide secular support.

[hiyymer]

Militant Atheism needs to get on it's knees and suck my pleasuarbly large cock.

Sick and tired of the term and this 'movement'. What happened to simple 'reason'?

The effect of "the light of reason" on our world view is vastly overrated. We all seem to have loads of reason. As Descartes put it somewhat sardonically: "Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have." And yet, what do you see? Societies, the with huge numbers of overwhelmingly poor members are also overwhelmingly superstitious. On the other hand, societies with substantial strata of comfortably off bourgeois members living in democracies tend toward atheism.

Yes, the latter do tend to be well educated and practiced in reasoning, but I put it to you: Can you think of a society without a bourgeois democracy that has a significant population of atheists? Or - to put it another way - the spread of reason is contingent on social structures.

It just demonstrates that atheism is typically a delusion of rational self autonomy which requires the kind of personal security, tolerance, and openness to technology that mark ascendant cultures. Such cultures do not get the way they are because of there "social structure" but because of economics and accidents of history and geography. There were a lot of rationalists in India at the time of it's ascendancy before Christ was born. It's nothing new. Islam was much more open and free thinking at its zenith around 1,000. Then it lost its trade monopoly.

[Trolldor]

You need to do a little more research on Islam.

[DRSB]

There are even Christians that think RD furthers their cause, like see here the article: "Thank God for the new Atheists": http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/08/10/ ... -atheists/

There is this Evolutionary Evangelist, M. Dowd, see his site: Thank God for Evolution: http://www.thankgodforevolution.com/

On the whole, creationists are masters of dealing with absurdities, they can turn around plain impossible things and use it to support their claims!

On the other hand, sometimes atheism behaves as a religion too, some atheists think they need a church: http://nymag.com/news/features/46214/

[bhakta]

While accepting the damage done by more dogmatic Xtian educational establishments many students of Xtian instituitions in developing countries are not indoctrinated or "abused" sexually or psychologically and many have gone onto take up leading positions in their countries. I saw this from personal experience of working in a remote impoverished area of Asia which had a small Xtian school taking predominantly poor Hindu students. Proselytising was forbidden, but Christian staff were open about their faith. Recent students had gone onto the countries best further education institutions, one has become the countries leading neurosurgeon another the military commander for a communist insurgency which won de facto power, ultimately through the ballot box. Few have abandoned their own culture or become Xtian.

For many Xtian educationalists in developing countries working in education is not part some sinister plot to abuse , convert or indoctrinate. For most its a genuine attempt to give the poor and marginalised a voice. One of the best strategies to improve child survival is to provide women with a primary level education.

I guess an atheist teacher would feel free to discuss their non belief with say a Hindu student if asked ? Would a similar response from a Christian teacher be so wrong if questioned by a student?

As to the original thread being more tactical will probably just strengthen the religious militants as it will be seen as persecution and drive some moderates their way. I quite like the thought of a spot of bronze age education, a bit brutal in parts ,but underpins a more sustainable way of life and no more genocidal than the present age. ?

[Santa_Claus]

As to the original thread being more tactical will probably just strengthen the religious militants as it will be seen as persecution and drive some moderates their way. I quite like the thought of a spot of bronze age education, a bit brutal in parts ,but underpins a more sustainable way of life and no more genocidal than the present age. ?

Persecution? those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.

I have no problem with you embracing the bronze age, nor even abusing your own children with a bronze age education - but I do have a problem with either imposing it on others - or simply expecting others to treat mumbo jumboism as normal behaviour. it's not.

You're an adult in 21st century FFS

[charlou]

I have no problem with you embracing the bronze age, nor even abusing your own children with a bronze age education - but I do have a problem with either imposing it on others - or simply expecting others to treat mumbo jumboism as normal behaviour. it's not.

With "you" are you addressing bhakta? If so, I think you're leaping to quite a few assumptions there.

[Trolldor]

I take serious issue with anyone inflicting their children with bronze age mythology under the presumption that it is fact.

[Santa_Claus]

With "you" are you addressing bhakta? If so, I think you're leaping to quite a few assumptions there.

A bit of bhakta and a bit of thread. and the world in general.

Is he touching your special Jesus parts?

[charlou]

With "you" are you addressing bhakta? If so, I think you're leaping to quite a few assumptions there.

A bit of bhakta and a bit of thread. and the world in general.

Is he touching your special Jesus parts?

If that were the case, it'd be a repressed christian sidehug with furtive grope and cognitive denial.

[Robert_S]

I don't know where the idea that atheists ought to adopt some overarching strategy or set of tactics comes from, thought I suspect it's habit. Liberation does not march in lock step.

That said, a diversity of tactics, strategies and whatever is probably the best way to promote godlessness. Let's suppose this one's an atheist and volunteers at some local charity, that one is a selfish greedy bastard with a big house too many cars, another is outspoken and just a little tiresome sometimes and yet another doesn't really bring it up very much, and so on.

That's a great way to be.


And bhakta, I once heard "the church" defined as all the people of good will. By that definition, quite a few atheists never left it.

[buschmaster]

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[Feck]

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