So you think it was a slip of the tongue?JimC wrote:I agree 100% with Dawkin's attack on fundamentalist crap being spouted at Islamic (and other) faith schools, and I agree that such criticism must be expressed robustly. I just think his choice of the word "alien" was unwise, and played into the hands of the Imams, who can claim that Dawkins is aiding and abetting racist attitudes.
Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
- Exi5tentialist
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:55 pm
- Location: Coalville
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Atheist is a word of the Godly, to prejudice the Outsider.PordFrefect wrote:'Atheist' has come to take on many different connotations - due largely to militant and gnu atheists.
They've been slighting non-believers for a very long time now.
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
I find your syntax hard to follow. It seems like you mean to say that 'atheist' is a term coined by the religious to make those not part of their religion(s) become prejudiced against the religious. Odd.HomerJay wrote:Atheist is a word of the Godly, to prejudice the Outsider.PordFrefect wrote:'Atheist' has come to take on many different connotations - due largely to militant and gnu atheists.
They've been slighting non-believers for a very long time now.
Anyhow, the appellation 'atheist' has taken on connotations from both sides - most recently, and the ones from which I have reason to no longer identify myself as an atheist, have come from self-identified atheists.
- klr
- (%gibber(who=klr, what=Leprageek);)
- Posts: 32964
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:25 pm
- About me: The money was just resting in my account.
- Location: Airstrip Two
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Coming late to the party, but:
Could he have phrased it differently? Of course. Could he have phrased it differently and preserved the sense of disgust about what's happening? Probably, but TBH I couldn't give a proverbial monkeys. It's a very serious problem he's trying to highlight and if this sort of language gets it wider attention, then I won't complain.
Implicitly applying Occam's Razor, that's what I took it to mean as well. It's the explanation that bests fits the situation. Any claim that he "must" have been using it another sense is groundless. His (subconscious) language simply reflects his exasperation.Pappa wrote:I took it as "alien to science".Exi5tentialist wrote:"Alien" is a choice of words that Dawkins deliberately uses because of its ambiguous meaning. Of course, Dawkins doesn't mean "foreign" or "not English" does he? He must mean the other meaning of alien - "foreign" and "not English". What a charmer.
Could he have phrased it differently? Of course. Could he have phrased it differently and preserved the sense of disgust about what's happening? Probably, but TBH I couldn't give a proverbial monkeys. It's a very serious problem he's trying to highlight and if this sort of language gets it wider attention, then I won't complain.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Either he's a completely incompetent twit or he did it purposefully, subconsciously or not.
- Pappa
- Non-Practicing Anarchist
- Posts: 56488
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:42 am
- About me: I am sacrificing a turnip as I type.
- Location: Le sud du Pays de Galles.
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
I don't think I've ever seen or read Dawkins attack or be hostile about Islam in it's totality, just the facets of it that conflict with science or the facets that he feels are abusive/oppressive to children/adults.Exi5tentialist wrote: Yeah what about the hierarchy I described though? Dawkins sees gradations of niceness in Christianity that he can't or won't see in islam.
- Exi5tentialist
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:55 pm
- Location: Coalville
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Ah yes Occam's Razor, otherwise known as letting an islamophobic bigot off the hook.klr wrote:Coming late to the party, but:
Implicitly applying Occam's Razor, that's what I took it to mean as well. It's the explanation that bests fits the situation. Any claim that he "must" have been using it another sense is groundless. His (subconscious) language simply reflects his exasperation.Pappa wrote:I took it as "alien to science".Exi5tentialist wrote:"Alien" is a choice of words that Dawkins deliberately uses because of its ambiguous meaning. Of course, Dawkins doesn't mean "foreign" or "not English" does he? He must mean the other meaning of alien - "foreign" and "not English". What a charmer.
Could he have phrased it differently? Of course. Could he have phrased it differently and preserved the sense of disgust about what's happening? Probably, but TBH I couldn't give a proverbial monkeys. It's a very serious problem he's trying to highlight and if this sort of language gets it wider attention, then I won't complain.
- klr
- (%gibber(who=klr, what=Leprageek);)
- Posts: 32964
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:25 pm
- About me: The money was just resting in my account.
- Location: Airstrip Two
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
None here either. Actually, I'm surprised he doesn't take more flak for (in general) picking on Christianity more than he "should".Pappa wrote:I don't think I've ever seen or read Dawkins attack or be hostile about Islam in it's totality, just the facets of it that conflict with science or the facets that he feels are abusive/oppressive to children/adults.Exi5tentialist wrote: Yeah what about the hierarchy I described though? Dawkins sees gradations of niceness in Christianity that he can't or won't see in islam.
If you're so confident about what he meant, I presume you'll be looking for him to be prosecuted for hate speech.Exi5tentialist wrote: ...
Ah yes Occam's Razor, otherwise known as letting an islamophobic bigot off the hook.
The Internet: A place where someone sitting behind a keyboard can make free with grandiose assertions without a shred of evidence.

God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Or write a letter to the editor of every one of the many newsrags calling him out on his deliberate ambiguity and the racial/cultural clash it promotes. I understand he sometimes replies to such things.klr wrote: If you're so confident about what he meant, I presume you'll be looking for him to be prosecuted for hate speech.
Perhaps he'll let us know his intent and you'll have your evidence.

Also Occam's Razor is rarely useful in politics and propaganda.
Last edited by Jason on Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- colubridae
- Custom Rank: Rank
- Posts: 2771
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:16 pm
- About me: http://www.essentialart.com/acatalog/Ed ... Stars.html
- Location: Birmingham art gallery
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Classic.Exi5tentialist wrote:So you think it was a slip of the tongue?JimC wrote:I agree 100% with Dawkin's attack on fundamentalist crap being spouted at Islamic (and other) faith schools, and I agree that such criticism must be expressed robustly. I just think his choice of the word "alien" was unwise, and played into the hands of the Imams, who can claim that Dawkins is aiding and abetting racist attitudes.
Dawkins makes good sense on all aspects of religion, religious heirarchies, religious heirarchies within a sect, etc..
He cannot be refuted on that score. Fuck. What can I do.
I know! I’ll pick on some vague abstruse point and subtle trash Dawkins.
Brill. No-one will notice what I’m doing.
No-one will notice the Islamic apologetics.
All I need do is subtly inject a controversial ‘ad hom’ and we’re off to the races.
The real value of what Dawkins says will be covertly diminished.
Allah! I’m such a genius! Not only that, but no-one will realise what I’m up to.
Gawd’s posts are so ineffectual compared to mine, they make the perfect stalking horse.
He doesn’t even realise that his dumb-ass posts are harming the cause of Islamic apologetics.

I have a well balanced personality. I've got chips on both shoulders
- Exi5tentialist
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:55 pm
- Location: Coalville
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
So do you think it was a slip of the tongue?colubridae wrote:Classic.Exi5tentialist wrote:So you think it was a slip of the tongue?JimC wrote:I agree 100% with Dawkin's attack on fundamentalist crap being spouted at Islamic (and other) faith schools, and I agree that such criticism must be expressed robustly. I just think his choice of the word "alien" was unwise, and played into the hands of the Imams, who can claim that Dawkins is aiding and abetting racist attitudes.
Dawkins makes good sense on all aspects of religion, religious heirarchies, religious heirarchies within a sect, etc..
He cannot be refuted on that score. Fuck. What can I do.
I know! I’ll pick on some vague abstruse point and subtle trash Dawkins.
Brill. No-one will notice what I’m doing.
No-one will notice the Islamic apologetics.
All I need do is subtly inject a controversial ‘ad hom’ and we’re off to the races.
The real value of what Dawkins says will be covertly diminished.
Allah! I’m such a genius! Not only that, but no-one will realise what I’m up to.
Gawd’s posts are so ineffectual compared to mine, they make the perfect stalking horse.
He doesn’t even realise that his dumb-ass posts are harming the cause of Islamic apologetics.
- klr
- (%gibber(who=klr, what=Leprageek);)
- Posts: 32964
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:25 pm
- About me: The money was just resting in my account.
- Location: Airstrip Two
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Someone may want to waste their time writing letters (or more likely emails) to all and sundry publications, but "waste of time" is what it would be. Whatever other faults they may have, editorial staff can usually tell whether something is newsworthy or not.PordFrefect wrote:Or write a letter to the editor of every one of the many newsrags calling him out on his deliberate ambiguity and the racial/cultural clash it promotes. I understand he sometimes replies to such things.klr wrote: If you're so confident about what he meant, I presume you'll be looking for him to be prosecuted for hate speech.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- Gawdzilla Sama
- Stabsobermaschinist
- Posts: 151265
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
- About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
- Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
Dawkins says one word, "alien" and people are freaking out. Meanwhile:
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
- Exi5tentialist
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:55 pm
- Location: Coalville
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
So do you think it was a slip of the tongue?klr wrote:Someone may want to waste their time writing letters (or more likely emails) to all and sundry publications, but "waste of time" is what it would be. Whatever other faults they may have, editorial staff can usually tell whether something is newsworthy or not.PordFrefect wrote:Or write a letter to the editor of every one of the many newsrags calling him out on his deliberate ambiguity and the racial/cultural clash it promotes. I understand he sometimes replies to such things.klr wrote: If you're so confident about what he meant, I presume you'll be looking for him to be prosecuted for hate speech.
- Exi5tentialist
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:55 pm
- Location: Coalville
- Contact:
Re: Dawkins on Alien Rubbish
So do you think it was a slip of the tongue?Gawdzilla wrote:Dawkins says one word, "alien" and people are freaking out. Meanwhile:
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests