Marriage and Atheism

[mandy]

Have you guys heard the news about what Holland is up to? Its truly disturbing.
If you are squemish then turn away. Europe is going down the drain soon. Its losing all moral values. No wonder people are converting to Islam.

Dont look now:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 12#p407012


Amsterdam is about to abolish the age of marriage altogether; soon you will be
able to marry a new born baby in Europe. That is just disgusting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/17/world ... 22178.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_ ... _Diversity

Political Party PNVD sought to have the legal age-of-consent lowered to 12, and,
in the long run, completely eliminated (except in dependent or intrafamilial relationships.)
They reason that only "coerced" or "dangerous" sexual activity should be punished.
Party Treasurer Van den Berg claimed that, "Rearing is also about introducing children to sex".
Their platform also included legalization of humans engaging in sex with animals.

THE HAGUE:

Court refuses to ban Dutch pedophile party

In his ruling, Judge H. Hofhuis said that the freedom of expression and association, "including the freedom to set up a political party, can be seen as the basis for a democratic society. These freedoms give citizens the opportunity to, for example, use a political party to appeal for change to the Constitution, law, or policy."

That is just so sick. What the.... marrying an animal and marrying new born girls?
oh man, how can you atheists live with yourselves.
You should get rid of Holland before its too late.


Islam says you can only marry a girl when she begins her monthly bleeding periods. you cant marry her before that.
So if a girl start to have her menstruation at age of 9, then Allah allows you to make her your wife. God's book the Quran is with nature all the time.

_________________________________________

[Theophilus]

I would've thought supporting child abuse would yank anyone's chain?

When not involved in a thread it is perhaps easier to recognise a wind-up.

Actually. Just thinking about it. Why did you say "winding atheists up"? Are you saying he would've got away with saying this stuff on a Christian site? I think "winding people up" is more appropriate.

Yes, fair correction, I mention atheists only because those are the majority of people here.

[Animavore]

That is just so sick. What the.... marrying an animal and marrying new born girls?
oh man, how can you atheists live with yourselves.
You should get rid of Holland before its too late.

What a way to misrepresent an article. A very small party in Holland with almost no supporters sought to have the age limit removed and failed.
What has this got to do with atheism is beyond me.

[Trolldor]

Mandelson is trying to hide the fact he thinks nine year olds are 'awwright' material for a Good Muslim Man.

[mandy]

im not hiding anything, you are just upset with me for those
posts above, you are just making things up in anger.
Islam and UN both allows young marriages, although im into older women.
i dont like immature chicks. useless.

[Animavore]

Well, Islam and UN both allows young marriages, although im into older women.
i dont like immature chicks. useless.

You've tried one?

[mandy]

nah, they are a turn off.

[Trolldor]

Lying through your teeth now.

[camoguard]

Ignoring the muslim tangent, I don't think the all or nothing child exposure plan for religion works or works well. The reason is that many religions not only have exclusion principles, but speaking for myself, if I were to advocate a religion I did not believe in, the quality is different enough that it's now apples and oranges all over again. The all or nothing plan makes sense in its goals, I argue that it is overly cumbersome to implement.

Further, religion is often tied to culture from personal perspectives, in my observations. You simply can't represent a culture you don't understand, and parents shouldn't bother trying. It's enough to say there are other rich cultures out there and encourage curiosity and learning. The child will eventually become responsible for themselves. I didn't start atheist. But I got there.

[Onomotopeia]

Apologies for derailing (rerailing?) the discussion, but I had a few secular thoughts about marriage (in the U.S.), since I had to make the decision myself. It's a lot of pro/con points just splatted all over the place; you asked for thoughts, you get thoughts

Pro: public declarations can reinforce your personal commitment. When you stand up in front of a bunch of people and make a promise, you may think a little harder before you break it. Maybe that is enough: maybe you just needed a decimal-point's worth of encouragement to push you over the line to Try One More Time and get through the other side of a dark time. This may also benefit your kids.

Con: can lock people into a bad thing. When the social stigma is too much, people will stay in relationships that make both people profoundly unhappy (including but not limited to emotional and physically abuse).

Pro: social capital in marriage can reinforce your personal commitment. Again, maybe "how would my friends think of me if I quit" might be enough to push you over that edge.

Con: too much social capital is invested in marriage versus . Married couples get treated differently from committed couples in many circles.

Pro: a stronger commitment can be relaxing and less stressful. You have at least a perception that he/she is likely to leave you, which may allow you to settle in together more comfortably.

Con: a stronger commitment can lead to complacency. Taking each other for granted.

Pro: the extreme length of the contract can help create a stable home for kids.

Pro: the extreme length of the contract means you're more likely to have someone around in old age, which I imagine is lonely and difficult without a partner.

Con: the extreme length of the contract is unrealistic. Who enters a lifetime commitment with almost no knowledge of what they will be like in 20 years? Business arrangements generally have time limits for a reason. I think it would be best if marriage was an n-year renewable commitment (with automatic extension while you have kids in the house).

Con: there is a social stigma against prenuptials due to the "forever" nature of the contract. This makes divorce messy.

Pro: creates a safer situation for one person to quit their job for child care or some other beneficial purpose. Two people pooling their resources to do something like this is good, but requires a contract. Quitting your job can have real repercussions on your career, it's good to have a safety net saying the other partner will support you (even after breach of contract).

Con: divorce law is ambiguous, inequitable and insane. Too easy for people to escalate an already emotional messy situation worse by trying to screw one another. Alimony is much higher and extends much longer than it should.

Con: the riders. Marriage is a commitment to stick together. Why do visitation rights, taxes, insurance, inheritance, and all the other benefits have to be attached to it--can't they be separated?

Con: the wedding image. Girls get brainwashed into it from an early age. Most girls I know spent a lot of time in childhood imagining their perfect wedding.

I am happily married. On balance I don't think the forever contract is a good idea or worth signing. But there are two people involved in that decision, and her wishes tipped the balance for me

[JimC]

^^^^^^

Needed re-railing, anyway...

Good compendium of pros and cons, BTW...

And welcome to Ratz!

[TheGreatGatsby]

I think marriage is a good thing. Good for the child, mostly good for the parents. It doesn't have to be something religious so I don't think "marriage and atheism" is really worth discussing. Marriage is not founded on religion.

[Tigger]

I think marriage is a good thing. Good for the child, mostly good for the parents. It doesn't have to be something religious so I don't think "marriage and atheism" is really worth discussing. Marriage is not founded on religion.

The discussion is ok for academic purposes, but I agree with you.