Do you hate Islam ?

[mandy]

ok thanks Tigger. i will try not to insult people who dont like it.
but me... i dont mind nothing me. you can call me whatever...
if you want to throw me out then thats ok. i will go away. i know you got to keep things under control here. lot of ladies know you're the Tigger with the big dick. size matters i guess. well not to everyone. so, i dont wanna mess with you. i'll do what you say. you're the good MOD here Tigger. FBM is ok too. but he gets upset easily. he got a temper. i got be careful with that dude. the other MODS are also fine.

i like you all. so lets stop crying and talk about real world issues.

______________________

[mandy]

my replies in italics:

Bella Fortuna, its great that you changed your picture. thank you for putting on the clothes. i like the new picture.

anyway, to address you questions:
BrettA tried to reply to my question, saying i only assume about her. but then she goes on to confirm that my knowledge of her was, in her words, "both correct".

"What is your reason for not liking muslims. Why do you hate Islam?[/u] Just let it out, I want to hear you.."

BrettA:
it appears based on the falshood that that I do not like muslims and that I hate Islam says far more to me about the questioner than the questioner can possibly know about me.

i can read you from here.
and... you said "falsehood"?..... well, lets see if you really think it was falsehood:

I may get around to reading more of this thread, but I wish to point out just how offensive this question - presumably asked on either the assumption that I'm not muslim or that I'm a friendly rabid atheist (both correct) - is to me, right off the bat.

see what i mean ?

I rather hope that if and when I do read the rest, you've clarified that I'm wrong in my interpretation here, but I ask you to re-read to where I cut off your question and ask yourself about your own biases and what could possibly prompt such ugly assumptions about people you simply do not know.

but you just said i was right. so whats the problem now?


now to Coito,
he gave a big long reply and asked me so many things.... i think he forgot, i said no lectures !!!! :pissed:

im asking the a simple qeustion here on this thread. if you guys wanna ask me anything whatever,
then do it on the other thread: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10328

i'll answer him this time....


Coito ergo sum:
You must be delusional. There is no beauty in that faith.

its either me or its you.

it is also flat out false. It's a dirty lie.

so you say.
you have proven nothing but that fact that you hate islam. feelings are not same as facts.

NOBODY FUCKING THINKS "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS." In my entire life, I have never heard one person ever, anywhere, anyhow - even the most rabid anti-Muslim person - say at any time that "all Muslims are terrorists." If you thought that, then you were wrong.

ok fine, mate. Potential terrorists, then.

I don't dislike all Muslims.

we'll have to see, mate.

I have never met anyone in my entire life who does not like all Muslims.

that dont mean they dont exist.


Why do you hate Islam?

Oh, let me see here:

a. It is a flat out lie and a fabrication;
flatness is difficult to prove.
b. It is backwards, antiquated, and almost medieval in its orthodox forms;
forward and backward directions are relative
c. It is misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Jewish, and generally anti-non-Muslim.
and these are bad things?
d. It calls for the death penalty for apostates (those that leave the faith)
but capital punnishment for this is acceptable in modern world
e. The Qu'ran (and I have read it) is a very poor moral guide.
some say its the best moral book on earth
f. The Qu'ran is demonstrably false in many of its factual claims.
no scientist has point one error in Allah's book. its perfect.
g. It causes a lot of people to be opposed to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of thought, etc.
do you know any country on earth that allows total freedom to people?
h. It causes a lot of people to be hypersensitive about their religion, and to riot of little things like cartoons.
dont you ever protest?
i. It motivates a great deal of terrorism in the world.
One woman's terrorist in another woman's freedom fighter
j. And, again, it's false.
Climate change scientists also call each other's global warming data false. But thats no reason for hatred.

I don't have a serious problem with all Muslims

oh you dont say. after all that, somehow i dont believe you. your hatred is abundently clear, even to the blind.

I do have a serious problem with Islam in general, and I have a serious problem with any Muslim who takes Islam seriously.

there you are. its good to be honest, mate.

If someone happens to be Muslim, but be sort of "reformed" and mellow about it, not really take it too seriously, then that's cool.

you mean an ass kisser? i get it; one that follows you and not Allah. It is Allah lovers you hate. just admit it.


I used to chat with the Muslim store owner by my house and we would joke a lot. He was not at all devout - almost non-practicing - and thought the devout Muslims were freaks, though. A good friend of mine from ages ago is Muslim, but he also doesn't take the religion seriously.

good, let it out. you just dont like anyone who takes God seriously. this means that it is God you actually hate.
but thats ok. you have this God given right; and you will be asked about it, soon.

***Remember, the standard you apply to judge muslims and their beliefs and society, you should first apply the same standard to our western society and to ourselves first.***

Why "first?" Why not "at the same time?"

it just shows your sincerity. also, a child cannot learn to walk and run at the same time.

I am willing to judge all with an equal standard.

good, but lets check it...

western society practices freedom of and from religion

muslim society practices better freedom of and from materialism

There shouldn't even be an "Islamic society."

but there should be a secular society, right?

the concept of a "Muslim country," is one of the reasons I hold Islam in complete and utter contempt, and metaphorically spit on it with disgust.

ah thats the standard. fone. so, is it also ok for muslims to spit on concept of secular democracies? metaphorically ofccourse.

The people in so called "Muslim countries" and "Muslim societies" should be able to have freedom of speech, religion, press and belief, etc., like us in the western world.

people in west actually have these freedom? really?
thats so nice to hear. when did this happen? i must have been sleeping in some cave.

women are oppressed, and aren't even allowed to drive. Nobody can build a Jewish temple or Christian church

that is still a lot less oppressive than Switzerland an atheist nation, where the Swiss citizens cannot build even a minaret.
do you "spit" on the alpine country too?

Islam is an insult to human dignity.

human? did you know quater of humanity loves it. i guess they are not human to you.

It is a chain that holds the human spirit down.

how would you know? have you asked those in chains, or this is only a prejuidice speaking again?
or maybe its just your submission to whoever is feeding to your brain.
i admit i submit to Allah; he feeds my mind.

seeks to control the daily lives of human beings who should be free

thats a big claim, mate. so, please tell me. does anyone control your actions?

I hate it because it makes people kneel down and plant their face in the dirt five times a day.

that only takes 5 minutes each, total of 25 minutes a day. which is better 25 minutes or 8 hours?
i mean... is it ok to make people slaves from 9 to 5 ?

I hate it because it motivates people to trod women down.

what!!! who does this? you are imaginig things mate.

I hate it because it is oppressive and mean-spirited

come on mate. why you just keep telling me your feelings. you're not giving evidence but only crying like ladies.

I hate it because it motivated the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01.

do you actually believe what Bush told you? did you know most americans suspect that 9/11 was an inside job.
you should go watch LOOSE CHANGE and other videos that provide independent evidence instead of listening to lies on CNN and FOX NEWS and BBC and other government controlled TV stations.

and is the cause of a great many problems in the world.

such as what? dont just say it show it, if you are honest.

You tell me if my reasons were good in your opinion. They are good reasons to me.

some were dogs bollocks and most were bollocks.
the bollocks reasons had nothing to do with Allah, they had something to do with muslims who dont listen to Allah but get brainwashed like you, and then do some really terrible things to other people. they are not different from say americans who break their own constitution. you can't hate a good constitution if the citizens are morons and dont act on it, can you mate; its not fair? that would be like as stupid as me blaming my jaguar for its crash while i was too busy enjoying my julie on the front seat instead of driving my beauty.

__________________________________

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I keep seeing "I-Slam" as a product Exi would be a spokesperson for.

[Thinking Aloud]

I keep seeing "I-Slam" as a product Exi would be a spokesperson for.

Maximum slammage.

I thinks we need some Apple product modifications...

[Tigger]

my replies in italics:

Bella Fortuna, its great that you changed your picture. thank you for putting on the clothes. i like the new picture.

anyway, to address you questions:
BrettA tried to reply to my question, saying i only assume about her. but then she goes on to confirm that my knowledge of her was, in her words, "both correct".

"What is your reason for not liking muslims. Why do you hate Islam?[/u] Just let it out, I want to hear you.."

BrettA:
it appears based on the falshood that that I do not like muslims and that I hate Islam says far more to me about the questioner than the questioner can possibly know about me.

i can read you from here.
and... you said "falsehood"?..... well, lets see if you really think it was falsehood:

I may get around to reading more of this thread, but I wish to point out just how offensive this question - presumably asked on either the assumption that I'm not muslim or that I'm a friendly rabid atheist (both correct) - is to me, right off the bat.

see what i mean ?

I rather hope that if and when I do read the rest, you've clarified that I'm wrong in my interpretation here, but I ask you to re-read to where I cut off your question and ask yourself about your own biases and what could possibly prompt such ugly assumptions about people you simply do not know.

but you just said i was right. so whats the problem now?


now to Coito,
he gave a big long reply and asked me so many things.... i think he forgot, i said no lectures !!!! :pissed:

im asking the a simple qeustion here on this thread. if you guys wanna ask me anything whatever,
then do it on the other thread: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10328

i'll answer him this time....


Coito ergo sum:
You must be delusional. There is no beauty in that faith.

its either me or its you.

it is also flat out false. It's a dirty lie.

so you say.
you have proven nothing but that fact that you hate islam. feelings are not same as facts.

NOBODY FUCKING THINKS "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS." In my entire life, I have never heard one person ever, anywhere, anyhow - even the most rabid anti-Muslim person - say at any time that "all Muslims are terrorists." If you thought that, then you were wrong.

ok fine, mate. Potential terrorists, then.

I don't dislike all Muslims.

we'll have to see, mate.

I have never met anyone in my entire life who does not like all Muslims.

that dont mean they dont exist.


Why do you hate Islam?

Oh, let me see here:

a. It is a flat out lie and a fabrication;
flatness is difficult to prove.
b. It is backwards, antiquated, and almost medieval in its orthodox forms;
forward and backward directions are relative
c. It is misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Jewish, and generally anti-non-Muslim.
and these are bad things?
d. It calls for the death penalty for apostates (those that leave the faith)
but capital punnishment for this is acceptable in modern world
e. The Qu'ran (and I have read it) is a very poor moral guide.
some say its the best moral book on earth
f. The Qu'ran is demonstrably false in many of its factual claims.
no scientist has point one error in Allah's book. its perfect.
g. It causes a lot of people to be opposed to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of thought, etc.
do you know any country on earth that allows total freedom to people?
h. It causes a lot of people to be hypersensitive about their religion, and to riot of little things like cartoons.
dont you ever protest?
i. It motivates a great deal of terrorism in the world.
One woman's terrorist in another woman's freedom fighter
j. And, again, it's false.
Climate change scientists also call each other's global warming data false. But thats no reason for hatred.

I don't have a serious problem with all Muslims

oh you dont say. after all that, somehow i dont believe you. your hatred is abundently clear, even to the blind.

I do have a serious problem with Islam in general, and I have a serious problem with any Muslim who takes Islam seriously.

there you are. its good to be honest, mate.

If someone happens to be Muslim, but be sort of "reformed" and mellow about it, not really take it too seriously, then that's cool.

you mean an ass kisser? i get it; one that follows you and not Allah. It is Allah lovers you hate. just admit it.


I used to chat with the Muslim store owner by my house and we would joke a lot. He was not at all devout - almost non-practicing - and thought the devout Muslims were freaks, though. A good friend of mine from ages ago is Muslim, but he also doesn't take the religion seriously.

good, let it out. you just dont like anyone who takes God seriously. this means that it is God you actually hate.
but thats ok. you have this God given right; and you will be asked about it, soon.

***Remember, the standard you apply to judge muslims and their beliefs and society, you should first apply the same standard to our western society and to ourselves first.***

Why "first?" Why not "at the same time?"

it just shows your sincerity. also, a child cannot learn to walk and run at the same time.

I am willing to judge all with an equal standard.

good, but lets check it...

western society practices freedom of and from religion

muslim society practices better freedom of and from materialism

There shouldn't even be an "Islamic society."

but there should be a secular society, right?

the concept of a "Muslim country," is one of the reasons I hold Islam in complete and utter contempt, and metaphorically spit on it with disgust.

ah thats the standard. fone. so, is it also ok for muslims to spit on concept of secular democracies? metaphorically ofccourse.

The people in so called "Muslim countries" and "Muslim societies" should be able to have freedom of speech, religion, press and belief, etc., like us in the western world.

people in west actually have these freedom? really?
thats so nice to hear. when did this happen? i must have been sleeping in some cave.

women are oppressed, and aren't even allowed to drive. Nobody can build a Jewish temple or Christian church

that is still a lot less oppressive than Switzerland an atheist nation, where the Swiss citizens cannot build even a minaret.
do you "spit" on the alpine country too?

Islam is an insult to human dignity.

human? did you know quater of humanity loves it. i guess they are not human to you.

It is a chain that holds the human spirit down.

how would you know? have you asked those in chains, or this is only a prejuidice speaking again?
or maybe its just your submission to whoever is feeding to your brain.
i admit i submit to Allah; he feeds my mind.

seeks to control the daily lives of human beings who should be free

thats a big claim, mate. so, please tell me. does anyone control your actions?

I hate it because it makes people kneel down and plant their face in the dirt five times a day.

that only takes 5 minutes each, total of 25 minutes a day. which is better 25 minutes or 8 hours?
i mean... is it ok to make people slaves from 9 to 5 ?

I hate it because it motivates people to trod women down.

what!!! who does this? you are imaginig things mate.

I hate it because it is oppressive and mean-spirited

come on mate. why you just keep telling me your feelings. you're not giving evidence but only crying like ladies.

I hate it because it motivated the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01.

do you actually believe what Bush told you? did you know most americans suspect that 9/11 was an inside job.
you should go watch LOOSE CHANGE and other videos that provide independent evidence instead of listening to lies on CNN and FOX NEWS and BBC and other government controlled TV stations.

and is the cause of a great many problems in the world.

such as what? dont just say it show it, if you are honest.

You tell me if my reasons were good in your opinion. They are good reasons to me.

some were dogs bollocks and most were bollocks.
the bollocks reasons had nothing to do with Allah, they had something to do with muslims who dont listen to Allah but get brainwashed like you, and then do some really terrible things to other people. they are not different from say americans who break their own constitution. you can't hate a good constitution if the citizens are morons and dont act on it, can you mate; its not fair? that would be like as stupid as me blaming my jaguar for its crash while i was too busy enjoying my julie on the front seat instead of driving my beauty.

__________________________________

tl; dr.

[Trolldor]

TL;DR label must be followed by a summary Tigger.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I keep seeing "I-Slam" as a product Exi would be a spokesperson for.

Maximum slammage.

I thinks we need some Apple product modifications...

Where is that dickhead when you need him?

[Thinking Aloud]

TL;DR label must be followed by a summary Tigger.

Summery Tigers, eh?

[Trolldor]

[Coito ergo sum]

now to Coito,
he gave a big long reply and asked me so many things.... i think he forgot, i said no lectures !!!! :pissed:

I gave no lecture. I did not "ask you so many things," either. I answered your questions quite specifically. The fact is, there are just many reasons to dislike Islam. I listed some of them.

im asking the a simple qeustion here on this thread. if you guys wanna ask me anything whatever,
then do it on the other thread: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10328

i'll answer him this time....

Coito ergo sum:
You must be delusional. There is no beauty in that faith.

its either me or its you.

It's you.

it is also flat out false. It's a dirty lie.

so you say.
you have proven nothing but that fact that you hate islam. feelings are not same as facts.

Your OP was not about proving anything. You asked, quite specifically, why we hate Islam. I answered that direct question with a direct answer. You said to keep it short, and yet you still complained that my post was too long, and now you're asking for an even longer one as I would have to explain to you the basis for my statements. The fact is, Islam is false. Nobody rides winged horses to heaven, for example. And, there is no evidence of any god or gods existing, including but not limited to Allah.

NOBODY FUCKING THINKS "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS." In my entire life, I have never heard one person ever, anywhere, anyhow - even the most rabid anti-Muslim person - say at any time that "all Muslims are terrorists." If you thought that, then you were wrong.

ok fine, mate. Potential terrorists, then.

Any person is a potential terrorist. A lot of Muslims are terrorists. That's a fact. A higher percentage of Muslims are terrorists than persons of other religions. That's a fact. But nobody says that all Muslims are terrorists.

I don't dislike all Muslims.

we'll have to see, mate.

No, we won't "have to see." You asked. I'm answering. I'll tell you who I dislike and who I like.

I have never met anyone in my entire life who does not like all Muslims.

that dont mean they dont exist.

I'm sure there are, like the KKK and other such hate groups. However, you suggested they were in the media. That's false.

Why do you hate Islam?

Oh, let me see here:

a. It is a flat out lie and a fabrication;
flatness is difficult to prove.

flat or round, it's a lie and a fabrication

b. It is backwards, antiquated, and almost medieval in its orthodox forms;
forward and backward directions are relative

Did you seriously want answers to your question? You sound like you've gotten offended. Oh, well. You asked. Anyway, "backward" here means "outdated" or "less advanced," or "retrogressive."

c. It is misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Jewish, and generally anti-non-Muslim.
and these are bad things?

Oh, yes, very much so. I love women. I think homosexuals are just fine and dandy. I like Jews as much as anyone else as a group, and non-Muslims are way better than Muslims, generally speaking, at least for the reason that they don't follow that nasty set of beliefs called "Islam."

d. It calls for the death penalty for apostates (those that leave the faith)
but capital punnishment for this is acceptable in modern world

Not for apostasy. Capital punishment as punishment for murder is one thing, but because of what someone believes is quite another. That's one of the reasons Islam is "backwards" - a "less advanced state" - because it advocates killing people for what they believe.

e. The Qu'ran (and I have read it) is a very poor moral guide.
some say its the best moral book on earth

Those people also think women are second class citizens and subjugated to men, and that apostates should be murdered, among other things. People who think that book represents good morals are not people I want to associate with very much. They are free to read and believe whatever they want, but I'd appreciate it if they'd stop trying to legislate or impose its filth on the rest of us.

f. The Qu'ran is demonstrably false in many of its factual claims.
no scientist has point one error in Allah's book. its perfect.

That's just you calling something white that is black. For example, in Sura 27:18-19 Solomon overhears a "conversation of ants." Ants don't have conversations. Hence that verse is false. Ants have a rudimentary method of communicating things with each other, like how birds use bird calls, etc., but ants don't have conversations.

Another demonstrably false part of the Qu'ran is that he Qur'an teaches that there are seven heavens one above the other [67:3, 71:15], and that the stars are in the lower heaven [67:5, 37:6, 41:12], but the moon is depicted as being in/inside the seven heavens [71:16], even though in reality the stars are much further away from the earth than the moon.

Another demonstrably false part of the Qu'ran is that it says that mountains are able to "refuse the trust" and "feel fear" (Sura 33:72) They can't. So, it's false.

Another example is the Qu'ran's claim that "And of every thing We have created pairs:" -- Sura 51:49. That's not true. Many things are parthenogenetic. So, the Qu'ran is wrong about that. Not everything has been created in pairs.

Done. Qu'ran is not perfect.

g. It causes a lot of people to be opposed to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of thought, etc.
do you know any country on earth that allows total freedom to people?

Who was referring to "total freedom?" I was referring to freedom of speech, religion, the press and freedom of thought. Just because all countries have laws doesn't make the Islamic set of rules equal to all others. Islam preaches that people who believe they should leave Islam should be killed. Islam causes people to suborn the murder of authors, journalists and cartoonists. That's why Islam sucks royal ass.

h. It causes a lot of people to be hypersensitive about their religion, and to riot of little things like cartoons.
dont you ever protest?

Protest is fine. Rioting, beating people up, threatening their lives, setting fire to embassies and other buildings, suborning murder, and all that rot is quite a different thing. Well maybe not in the Muslim hypersensitive mind. You can't tolerate criticism or jokes about your false prophet and nonexistent god, so you set fire to people, chop their heads off, riot, wail and piss and moan. It's not enough that Islam has the entire "Islamic world" under its dirty boot heel. It tries to impose its ugliness upon the western world, where we want to be free.

i. It motivates a great deal of terrorism in the world.
One woman's terrorist in another woman's freedom fighter

Only in bizarro world. When you murder children in stores, on buses and in cafes...when you murder innocent civilians at work and in discos...when you strap bombs to your children and send them off to die...when you carve up filmakers like Theo Van Gogh in the street like a dog, chase brave women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali underground, when you put prices on the heads of authors like Salman Rushdie, when you invade the homes of cartoonists like the Swedish cartoonist a few weeks ago, when you blow up children with bombs and murder people worldwide while screaming "Allahu Achbar" and wailing like maniacal fools, then it's terrorism and in no sense freedom fighter-esque. Anyone who would think such monstrous behavior akin to fighting for freedom has their head up their ass, or maybe Muhammed's ass.

j. And, again, it's false.
Climate change scientists also call each other's global warming data false. But thats no reason for hatred.

The difference is that innocent people aren't getting killed over global warming data, and global warming doesn't crush the human spirit, destroy human liberty, and bludgeon the freedom of all mankind, like Islam does.

I don't have a serious problem with all Muslims

oh you dont say. after all that, somehow i dont believe you. your hatred is abundently clear, even to the blind.

Hatred of Islam, yes. Absolutely. However, many Muslims, as I said, are like relatively secular Christians and Jews. Many don't follow the silliness of your ridiculous religion. Those folks are nice. Muslims are people, just like any other. They are not genetically different than anyone else. It's the religion that sucks monkey balls. But, yes, if a Muslim thinks that apostates should die,then I don't like that Muslim. I say, fuck him and the pig he rode in on.

I do have a serious problem with Islam in general, and I have a serious problem with any Muslim who takes Islam seriously.

there you are. its good to be honest, mate.

I've been honest all along. That statement is consistent with everything I said. If you take the parts of Islam seriously, like women being subjugated to men, homophobia, misogyny, etc. - if you advocate the death of apostates - if you riot and murder and assault and batter, or defend such activities, over cartoons and books and news articles - then yeah, I have a big fucking problem with you. I am under no obligation to think that your opinions are good. I will never bow to your religion, and I will never defend your right to kill apostates, riot/murder/assault/batter, blow people up in bars and cafes and on buses. I will never defend your right to wrap women in cloth and prevent them from driving or going out without male escorts. Damn right about that. I'll shout that from the rooftops. People who believe such things are assholes, just like Nazis and fascists.

If someone happens to be Muslim, but be sort of "reformed" and mellow about it, not really take it too seriously, then that's cool.

you mean an ass kisser? i get it; one that follows you and not Allah. It is Allah lovers you hate. just admit it.

What do you mean "just admit it?" I've been very clear. Shit yeah I hate people that riot and kill and defend rioting and killing - I sure do hate people who think apostates should die. I sure do hate people who demean and subjugate women and gays. And, anyone who loves a false god is deluded.

I used to chat with the Muslim store owner by my house and we would joke a lot. He was not at all devout - almost non-practicing - and thought the devout Muslims were freaks, though. A good friend of mine from ages ago is Muslim, but he also doesn't take the religion seriously.

good, let it out. you just dont like anyone who takes God seriously.

That depends on which God. Some people believe in a nice god that loves everyone and requires people to think and love and do good deeds. That kind of god I am o.k. with people taking seriously. Now, the traditional Muslim god, Allah, that thing is a filthy, nasty bugger. It advocates killing apostates, makes Jews second class citizens called "dhimmi," makes women subjugated to men, and calls for nasty "jihad" against non-Muslims. Fuck yeah, anyone who takes that god seriously has a screw loose.

this means that it is God you actually hate.

That's ludicrous. I don't hate non-existent things. I hate what the believers in certain nasty gods do though, and when they advocate things like suborning murder of authors and cartoonists, blasphemy laws, and rioting/murdering, etc., then yeah, I hate them too because they hate me and my society.

but thats ok. you have this God given right; and you will be asked about it, soon.

Not by your god. IT doesn't exist.

***Remember, the standard you apply to judge muslims and their beliefs and society, you should first apply the same standard to our western society and to ourselves first.***

Why "first?" Why not "at the same time?"

it just shows your sincerity. also, a child cannot learn to walk and run at the same time.

I am willing to judge all with an equal standard.

good, but lets check it...

western society practices freedom of and from religion

muslim society practices better freedom of and from materialism

Not freedom "of" materialism....but, definitely freedom from materialism. The very fact that you call something a "Muslim society" means that freedom of religion is limited. It's like calling something a "Christian society" making every other religion secondary to that. "Muslim society" is far worse.

There shouldn't even be an "Islamic society."

but there should be a secular society, right?

Secular government, and a free society. You can worship anyone you want - but no killing of apostates, etc.

the concept of a "Muslim country," is one of the reasons I hold Islam in complete and utter contempt, and metaphorically spit on it with disgust.

ah thats the standard. fone. so, is it also ok for muslims to spit on concept of secular democracies? metaphorically ofccourse.

Of course it's o.k. - people are free - it's a fundamental right of every person - to believe whatever they want to believe. Muslims like to take that right away from people - like by killing apostates.

The people in so called "Muslim countries" and "Muslim societies" should be able to have freedom of speech, religion, press and belief, etc., like us in the western world.

people in west actually have these freedom? really?

Yes. Come and visit us sometime. You'll see. It will amaze you how free you can be.

thats so nice to hear. when did this happen? i must have been sleeping in some cave.

Over time in the 17th and 18th centuries - generally called the Enlightenment.

women are oppressed, and aren't even allowed to drive. Nobody can build a Jewish temple or Christian church

that is still a lot less oppressive than Switzerland an atheist nation, where the Swiss citizens cannot build even a minaret.

LMFAO! You think that the Swiss not letting someone build a minaret is LESS oppressive than not letting women drive and not even allowing a Jewish temple or a Christian Church to be built!?!? You can build a mosque in Switzerland, and women can drive in Swizerland - the only thing you can't do is build a really tall minaret, and your Muslim brain thinks the Swiss are more oppressive than the Saudis? Are you crazy? Now, if all Saudi arabia did was restrict the building of tall church steeples, then you'd have something to compare it to. Saudi Arabia, however, doesn't allow the building of any churches or temples at all.

do you "spit" on the alpine country too?

No, because they have all the freedoms I described. They allow mosques to be built. They have equal rights for women. Equal rights for homos. Equal rights for Muslims. Muslims are not "dhimmi." All they restricted were minarets.

Islam is an insult to human dignity.

human? did you know quater of humanity loves it. i guess they are not human to you.

They are human. Their religion is inhuman.

It is a chain that holds the human spirit down.

how would you know?

I've learned about Islam, and interacted with many Muslims.

have you asked those in chains,

Yes. I don't need to be slave to know it sucks to be a slave.

or this is only a prejuidice speaking again?

Nothing I've said is prejudice. Nothing I said about Islam is lie - my factual claims are correct and you haven't even challenged them. What your pissed off about is that I hold a negative value judgment against Islam. That's not prejudice - that's my opinion based on fact.

or maybe its just your submission to whoever is feeding to your brain.

I don't submit to anyone.

i admit i submit to Allah; he feeds my mind.

Allah doesn't exist. The Qu'ran and the religious charlatans you're listening to are feeding you falsehoods.

seeks to control the daily lives of human beings who should be free

thats a big claim, mate. so, please tell me. does anyone control your actions?

Not really. Other than general laws about speeding on the highway, and that sort of thing, I'm free. Islam, as you have not denied, preaches for the murder of apostates. That's a tad extreme, dontcha think?

I hate it because it makes people kneel down and plant their face in the dirt five times a day.

that only takes 5 minutes each, total of 25 minutes a day. which is better 25 minutes or 8 hours?
i mean... is it ok to make people slaves from 9 to 5 ?

Slavery is not o.k. The place where slavery is legal today, however, is in the "Muslim world." See this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_ ... slim_world

I hate it because it motivates people to trod women down.

what!!! who does this? you are imaginig things mate.

It's happening all over the world: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... sogyn.html

In Saudi Arabia, women can't drive, and can't leave the house except in groups or with a male familial escort. In the "Muslim world" women can be beaten by their husbands, are subjected to honor killings, and are put on trial for being raped.... those are facts.

I hate it because it is oppressive and mean-spirited

come on mate. why you just keep telling me your feelings. you're not giving evidence but only crying like ladies.

You asked for our opinions. You asked why we hate Islam. I'm explaining why I hate Islam. Now you're bitching that you got answers to your questions...

I hate it because it motivated the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01.

do you actually believe what Bush told you?

Bush never told me anything.

did you know most americans suspect that 9/11 was an inside job.

Most americans don't think that, only a small crackpot minority.

you should go watch LOOSE CHANGE and other videos

Loose change has been debunked long ago. I have watched it, and the material demonstrating that Loose Change is full of shit.

that provide independent evidence instead of listening to lies on CNN and FOX NEWS and BBC and other government controlled TV stations.

I've listened to and read all the evidence.

and is the cause of a great many problems in the world.

such as what? dont just say it show it, if you are honest.

Islamic terrorism.
Hamas, Hizb'Allah, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa, Al Qaeta, and about 30 other active terrorist groups out there murdering and butchering people...
Worldwide "cartoon riots" causing many deaths, injuries and property damage
Mumbai hotel bombing
On 3/22/10 (Rawalpindi, Pakistan) - A Christian died after being burned alive three days earlier for refusing to embrace Islam. His wife was also raped.
Here's an article about a Muslim killed with 24 axe blows by six Muslims who demanded that he convert to Islam: http://www.compassdirect.org/english/co ... tan/16665/
Islamic countries are seeking to squelch freedom of speech by imposing "blasphemy laws" through the UN
In Nigeria on 3/7/10 - Over five-hundred Christians, mostly women and children, were hacked to death by Muslim raiders with machetes in a night-time attack on their village. The killers yelled 'Allah Akbar,' as they chopped, and chopped, and chopped...Allah Akbar...chop chop...Allah Akbar...chop chop...another woman..chop chop...another child...chop chop..Allah Akbar...
On February 1, 2010 in Iraq, a female Muslim suicide bomber murdered fifty-four innocent pilgrims at a hospitality tent, mostly women and children.
On 1/1/10 - to ring in the New Year - Islamic terrorists murdered 100 children in the name of Allah at a volleyball game.

The list goes on and on. Allah Akbar - chop chop - Allah Akbar - bang bang....

You tell me if my reasons were good in your opinion. They are good reasons to me.

some were dogs bollocks and most were bollocks.

Funny, you only took issue with my negative opinion of Islam, you did not show that my factual statements were false...let's see - take the top 3 things that you think I said that were false...let's talk about them. Educate me. Show me I was wrong.

the bollocks reasons had nothing to do with Allah, they had something to do with muslims who dont listen to Allah but get brainwashed like you,

I'm not brainwashed. Look - Islam has everything to do with "Allah" because that's the Muslim false god. Islam says that apostasy merits the death penalty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fae3jz_QbXc - that's according to an Imam interviewed on the BBC. What? Am I supposed to take your word over his? And, recall the Ayatollah put out a price on Rushdie's head for apostasy, and there is a price on Ayaan Hirsi Ali's head for apostasy. The only one brainwashed here is you, because you deny reality.

and then do some really terrible things to other people. they are not different from say americans who break their own constitution.

Sure they are. Because they kill people and set them on fire and destroy property and riot in the name of their false religion. They try to impose blasphemy laws in the name of their religion. They tell women they can't go outside or drive a car in the name of their religion. They fly planes into buildings in the name of their religion. They murder women and children in Nigeria and in Pakistan in the name of their religion.

you can't hate a good constitution if the citizens are morons and dont act on it,

Right, but the Qu'ran is not good. I've read it. It's not good. Even if its followers didn't act like assholes, the Qu'ran would still not be good. The Qu'ran itself is horrid and false.

[Thinking Aloud]

TOO LONG!!!!!!

Bird more entertaining.

[Trolldor]

Correct Response to Walls of text:

1) ...what?



2) No.

[Feck]

TL;DR label must be followed by a summary Tigger.

Summery Tigers, eh?

Aw !

[Thinking Aloud]

TL;DR label must be followed by a summary Tigger.

Summery Tigers, eh?

Aw !

2) No.

I think we should campaign to get the nested quote depth increased.

[Feck]

now to Coito,
he gave a big long reply and asked me so many things.... i think he forgot, i said no lectures !!!! :pissed:

I gave no lecture. I did not "ask you so many things," either. I answered your questions quite specifically. The fact is, there are just many reasons to dislike Islam. I listed some of them.

im asking the a simple qeustion here on this thread. if you guys wanna ask me anything whatever,
then do it on the other thread: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10328

i'll answer him this time....

Coito ergo sum:
You must be delusional. There is no beauty in that faith.

its either me or its you.

It's you.

it is also flat out false. It's a dirty lie.

so you say.
you have proven nothing but that fact that you hate islam. feelings are not same as facts.

Your OP was not about proving anything. You asked, quite specifically, why we hate Islam. I answered that direct question with a direct answer. You said to keep it short, and yet you still complained that my post was too long, and now you're asking for an even longer one as I would have to explain to you the basis for my statements. The fact is, Islam is false. Nobody rides winged horses to heaven, for example. And, there is no evidence of any god or gods existing, including but not limited to Allah.

NOBODY FUCKING THINKS "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS." In my entire life, I have never heard one person ever, anywhere, anyhow - even the most rabid anti-Muslim person - say at any time that "all Muslims are terrorists." If you thought that, then you were wrong.

ok fine, mate. Potential terrorists, then.

Any person is a potential terrorist. A lot of Muslims are terrorists. That's a fact. A higher percentage of Muslims are terrorists than persons of other religions. That's a fact. But nobody says that all Muslims are terrorists.

I don't dislike all Muslims.

we'll have to see, mate.

No, we won't "have to see." You asked. I'm answering. I'll tell you who I dislike and who I like.

I have never met anyone in my entire life who does not like all Muslims.

that dont mean they dont exist.

I'm sure there are, like the KKK and other such hate groups. However, you suggested they were in the media. That's false.

Why do you hate Islam?

Oh, let me see here:

a. It is a flat out lie and a fabrication;
flatness is difficult to prove.

flat or round, it's a lie and a fabrication

b. It is backwards, antiquated, and almost medieval in its orthodox forms;
forward and backward directions are relative

Did you seriously want answers to your question? You sound like you've gotten offended. Oh, well. You asked. Anyway, "backward" here means "outdated" or "less advanced," or "retrogressive."

c. It is misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Jewish, and generally anti-non-Muslim.
and these are bad things?

Oh, yes, very much so. I love women. I think homosexuals are just fine and dandy. I like Jews as much as anyone else as a group, and non-Muslims are way better than Muslims, generally speaking, at least for the reason that they don't follow that nasty set of beliefs called "Islam."

d. It calls for the death penalty for apostates (those that leave the faith)
but capital punnishment for this is acceptable in modern world

Not for apostasy. Capital punishment as punishment for murder is one thing, but because of what someone believes is quite another. That's one of the reasons Islam is "backwards" - a "less advanced state" - because it advocates killing people for what they believe.

e. The Qu'ran (and I have read it) is a very poor moral guide.
some say its the best moral book on earth

Those people also think women are second class citizens and subjugated to men, and that apostates should be murdered, among other things. People who think that book represents good morals are not people I want to associate with very much. They are free to read and believe whatever they want, but I'd appreciate it if they'd stop trying to legislate or impose its filth on the rest of us.

f. The Qu'ran is demonstrably false in many of its factual claims.
no scientist has point one error in Allah's book. its perfect.

That's just you calling something white that is black. For example, in Sura 27:18-19 Solomon overhears a "conversation of ants." Ants don't have conversations. Hence that verse is false. Ants have a rudimentary method of communicating things with each other, like how birds use bird calls, etc., but ants don't have conversations.

Another demonstrably false part of the Qu'ran is that he Qur'an teaches that there are seven heavens one above the other [67:3, 71:15], and that the stars are in the lower heaven [67:5, 37:6, 41:12], but the moon is depicted as being in/inside the seven heavens [71:16], even though in reality the stars are much further away from the earth than the moon.

Another demonstrably false part of the Qu'ran is that it says that mountains are able to "refuse the trust" and "feel fear" (Sura 33:72) They can't. So, it's false.

Another example is the Qu'ran's claim that "And of every thing We have created pairs:" -- Sura 51:49. That's not true. Many things are parthenogenetic. So, the Qu'ran is wrong about that. Not everything has been created in pairs.

Done. Qu'ran is not perfect.

g. It causes a lot of people to be opposed to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of thought, etc.
do you know any country on earth that allows total freedom to people?

Who was referring to "total freedom?" I was referring to freedom of speech, religion, the press and freedom of thought. Just because all countries have laws doesn't make the Islamic set of rules equal to all others. Islam preaches that people who believe they should leave Islam should be killed. Islam causes people to suborn the murder of authors, journalists and cartoonists. That's why Islam sucks royal ass.

h. It causes a lot of people to be hypersensitive about their religion, and to riot of little things like cartoons.
dont you ever protest?

Protest is fine. Rioting, beating people up, threatening their lives, setting fire to embassies and other buildings, suborning murder, and all that rot is quite a different thing. Well maybe not in the Muslim hypersensitive mind. You can't tolerate criticism or jokes about your false prophet and nonexistent god, so you set fire to people, chop their heads off, riot, wail and piss and moan. It's not enough that Islam has the entire "Islamic world" under its dirty boot heel. It tries to impose its ugliness upon the western world, where we want to be free.

i. It motivates a great deal of terrorism in the world.
One woman's terrorist in another woman's freedom fighter

Only in bizarro world. When you murder children in stores, on buses and in cafes...when you murder innocent civilians at work and in discos...when you strap bombs to your children and send them off to die...when you carve up filmakers like Theo Van Gogh in the street like a dog, chase brave women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali underground, when you put prices on the heads of authors like Salman Rushdie, when you invade the homes of cartoonists like the Swedish cartoonist a few weeks ago, when you blow up children with bombs and murder people worldwide while screaming "Allahu Achbar" and wailing like maniacal fools, then it's terrorism and in no sense freedom fighter-esque. Anyone who would think such monstrous behavior akin to fighting for freedom has their head up their ass, or maybe Muhammed's ass.

j. And, again, it's false.
Climate change scientists also call each other's global warming data false. But thats no reason for hatred.

The difference is that innocent people aren't getting killed over global warming data, and global warming doesn't crush the human spirit, destroy human liberty, and bludgeon the freedom of all mankind, like Islam does.

I don't have a serious problem with all Muslims

oh you dont say. after all that, somehow i dont believe you. your hatred is abundently clear, even to the blind.

Hatred of Islam, yes. Absolutely. However, many Muslims, as I said, are like relatively secular Christians and Jews. Many don't follow the silliness of your ridiculous religion. Those folks are nice. Muslims are people, just like any other. They are not genetically different than anyone else. It's the religion that sucks monkey balls. But, yes, if a Muslim thinks that apostates should die,then I don't like that Muslim. I say, fuck him and the pig he rode in on.

I do have a serious problem with Islam in general, and I have a serious problem with any Muslim who takes Islam seriously.

there you are. its good to be honest, mate.

I've been honest all along. That statement is consistent with everything I said. If you take the parts of Islam seriously, like women being subjugated to men, homophobia, misogyny, etc. - if you advocate the death of apostates - if you riot and murder and assault and batter, or defend such activities, over cartoons and books and news articles - then yeah, I have a big fucking problem with you. I am under no obligation to think that your opinions are good. I will never bow to your religion, and I will never defend your right to kill apostates, riot/murder/assault/batter, blow people up in bars and cafes and on buses. I will never defend your right to wrap women in cloth and prevent them from driving or going out without male escorts. Damn right about that. I'll shout that from the rooftops. People who believe such things are assholes, just like Nazis and fascists.

If someone happens to be Muslim, but be sort of "reformed" and mellow about it, not really take it too seriously, then that's cool.

you mean an ass kisser? i get it; one that follows you and not Allah. It is Allah lovers you hate. just admit it.

What do you mean "just admit it?" I've been very clear. Shit yeah I hate people that riot and kill and defend rioting and killing - I sure do hate people who think apostates should die. I sure do hate people who demean and subjugate women and gays. And, anyone who loves a false god is deluded.

I used to chat with the Muslim store owner by my house and we would joke a lot. He was not at all devout - almost non-practicing - and thought the devout Muslims were freaks, though. A good friend of mine from ages ago is Muslim, but he also doesn't take the religion seriously.

good, let it out. you just dont like anyone who takes God seriously.

That depends on which God. Some people believe in a nice god that loves everyone and requires people to think and love and do good deeds. That kind of god I am o.k. with people taking seriously. Now, the traditional Muslim god, Allah, that thing is a filthy, nasty bugger. It advocates killing apostates, makes Jews second class citizens called "dhimmi," makes women subjugated to men, and calls for nasty "jihad" against non-Muslims. Fuck yeah, anyone who takes that god seriously has a screw loose.

this means that it is God you actually hate.

That's ludicrous. I don't hate non-existent things. I hate what the believers in certain nasty gods do though, and when they advocate things like suborning murder of authors and cartoonists, blasphemy laws, and rioting/murdering, etc., then yeah, I hate them too because they hate me and my society.

but thats ok. you have this God given right; and you will be asked about it, soon.

Not by your god. IT doesn't exist.

***Remember, the standard you apply to judge muslims and their beliefs and society, you should first apply the same standard to our western society and to ourselves first.***

Why "first?" Why not "at the same time?"

it just shows your sincerity. also, a child cannot learn to walk and run at the same time.

I am willing to judge all with an equal standard.

good, but lets check it...

western society practices freedom of and from religion

muslim society practices better freedom of and from materialism

Not freedom "of" materialism....but, definitely freedom from materialism. The very fact that you call something a "Muslim society" means that freedom of religion is limited. It's like calling something a "Christian society" making every other religion secondary to that. "Muslim society" is far worse.

There shouldn't even be an "Islamic society."

but there should be a secular society, right?

Secular government, and a free society. You can worship anyone you want - but no killing of apostates, etc.

the concept of a "Muslim country," is one of the reasons I hold Islam in complete and utter contempt, and metaphorically spit on it with disgust.

ah thats the standard. fone. so, is it also ok for muslims to spit on concept of secular democracies? metaphorically ofccourse.

Of course it's o.k. - people are free - it's a fundamental right of every person - to believe whatever they want to believe. Muslims like to take that right away from people - like by killing apostates.

The people in so called "Muslim countries" and "Muslim societies" should be able to have freedom of speech, religion, press and belief, etc., like us in the western world.

people in west actually have these freedom? really?

Yes. Come and visit us sometime. You'll see. It will amaze you how free you can be.

thats so nice to hear. when did this happen? i must have been sleeping in some cave.

Over time in the 17th and 18th centuries - generally called the Enlightenment.

women are oppressed, and aren't even allowed to drive. Nobody can build a Jewish temple or Christian church

that is still a lot less oppressive than Switzerland an atheist nation, where the Swiss citizens cannot build even a minaret.

LMFAO! You think that the Swiss not letting someone build a minaret is LESS oppressive than not letting women drive and not even allowing a Jewish temple or a Christian Church to be built!?!? You can build a mosque in Switzerland, and women can drive in Swizerland - the only thing you can't do is build a really tall minaret, and your Muslim brain thinks the Swiss are more oppressive than the Saudis? Are you crazy? Now, if all Saudi arabia did was restrict the building of tall church steeples, then you'd have something to compare it to. Saudi Arabia, however, doesn't allow the building of any churches or temples at all.

do you "spit" on the alpine country too?

No, because they have all the freedoms I described. They allow mosques to be built. They have equal rights for women. Equal rights for homos. Equal rights for Muslims. Muslims are not "dhimmi." All they restricted were minarets.

Islam is an insult to human dignity.

human? did you know quater of humanity loves it. i guess they are not human to you.

They are human. Their religion is inhuman.

It is a chain that holds the human spirit down.

how would you know?

I've learned about Islam, and interacted with many Muslims.

have you asked those in chains,

Yes. I don't need to be slave to know it sucks to be a slave.

or this is only a prejuidice speaking again?

Nothing I've said is prejudice. Nothing I said about Islam is lie - my factual claims are correct and you haven't even challenged them. What your pissed off about is that I hold a negative value judgment against Islam. That's not prejudice - that's my opinion based on fact.

or maybe its just your submission to whoever is feeding to your brain.

I don't submit to anyone.

i admit i submit to Allah; he feeds my mind.

Allah doesn't exist. The Qu'ran and the religious charlatans you're listening to are feeding you falsehoods.

seeks to control the daily lives of human beings who should be free

thats a big claim, mate. so, please tell me. does anyone control your actions?

Not really. Other than general laws about speeding on the highway, and that sort of thing, I'm free. Islam, as you have not denied, preaches for the murder of apostates. That's a tad extreme, dontcha think?

I hate it because it makes people kneel down and plant their face in the dirt five times a day.

that only takes 5 minutes each, total of 25 minutes a day. which is better 25 minutes or 8 hours?
i mean... is it ok to make people slaves from 9 to 5 ?

Slavery is not o.k. The place where slavery is legal today, however, is in the "Muslim world." See this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_ ... slim_world

I hate it because it motivates people to trod women down.

what!!! who does this? you are imaginig things mate.

It's happening all over the world: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... sogyn.html

In Saudi Arabia, women can't drive, and can't leave the house except in groups or with a male familial escort. In the "Muslim world" women can be beaten by their husbands, are subjected to honor killings, and are put on trial for being raped.... those are facts.

I hate it because it is oppressive and mean-spirited

come on mate. why you just keep telling me your feelings. you're not giving evidence but only crying like ladies.

You asked for our opinions. You asked why we hate Islam. I'm explaining why I hate Islam. Now you're bitching that you got answers to your questions...

I hate it because it motivated the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01.

do you actually believe what Bush told you?

Bush never told me anything.

did you know most americans suspect that 9/11 was an inside job.

Most americans don't think that, only a small crackpot minority.

you should go watch LOOSE CHANGE and other videos

Loose change has been debunked long ago. I have watched it, and the material demonstrating that Loose Change is full of shit.

that provide independent evidence instead of listening to lies on CNN and FOX NEWS and BBC and other government controlled TV stations.

I've listened to and read all the evidence.

and is the cause of a great many problems in the world.

such as what? dont just say it show it, if you are honest.

Islamic terrorism.
Hamas, Hizb'Allah, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa, Al Qaeta, and about 30 other active terrorist groups out there murdering and butchering people...
Worldwide "cartoon riots" causing many deaths, injuries and property damage
Mumbai hotel bombing
On 3/22/10 (Rawalpindi, Pakistan) - A Christian died after being burned alive three days earlier for refusing to embrace Islam. His wife was also raped.
Here's an article about a Muslim killed with 24 axe blows by six Muslims who demanded that he convert to Islam: http://www.compassdirect.org/english/co ... tan/16665/
Islamic countries are seeking to squelch freedom of speech by imposing "blasphemy laws" through the UN
In Nigeria on 3/7/10 - Over five-hundred Christians, mostly women and children, were hacked to death by Muslim raiders with machetes in a night-time attack on their village. The killers yelled 'Allah Akbar,' as they chopped, and chopped, and chopped...Allah Akbar...chop chop...Allah Akbar...chop chop...another woman..chop chop...another child...chop chop..Allah Akbar...
On February 1, 2010 in Iraq, a female Muslim suicide bomber murdered fifty-four innocent pilgrims at a hospitality tent, mostly women and children.
On 1/1/10 - to ring in the New Year - Islamic terrorists murdered 100 children in the name of Allah at a volleyball game.

The list goes on and on. Allah Akbar - chop chop - Allah Akbar - bang bang....

You tell me if my reasons were good in your opinion. They are good reasons to me.

some were dogs bollocks and most were bollocks.

Funny, you only took issue with my negative opinion of Islam, you did not show that my factual statements were false...let's see - take the top 3 things that you think I said that were false...let's talk about them. Educate me. Show me I was wrong.

the bollocks reasons had nothing to do with Allah, they had something to do with muslims who dont listen to Allah but get brainwashed like you,

I'm not brainwashed. Look - Islam has everything to do with "Allah" because that's the Muslim false god. Islam says that apostasy merits the death penalty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fae3jz_QbXc - that's according to an Imam interviewed on the BBC. What? Am I supposed to take your word over his? And, recall the Ayatollah put out a price on Rushdie's head for apostasy, and there is a price on Ayaan Hirsi Ali's head for apostasy. The only one brainwashed here is you, because you deny reality.

and then do some really terrible things to other people. they are not different from say americans who break their own constitution.

Sure they are. Because they kill people and set them on fire and destroy property and riot in the name of their false religion. They try to impose blasphemy laws in the name of their religion. They tell women they can't go outside or drive a car in the name of their religion. They fly planes into buildings in the name of their religion. They murder women and children in Nigeria and in Pakistan in the name of their religion.

you can't hate a good constitution if the citizens are morons and dont act on it,

Right, but the Qu'ran is not good. I've read it. It's not good. Even if its followers didn't act like assholes, the Qu'ran would still not be good. The Qu'ran itself is horrid and false.

That was a long post ....have a beer