Why do atheists trust science?

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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:05 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Kalira9 wrote:I trust science because it has proven itself to be the best possible way to learn about and understand the world around us.

That is, unless you have a better method...
See, the problem is god-botherers only have one daffynition for "faith". I have faith in my truck getting me to the store and back with cheese. I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow. I have faith that magnetism works. I believe in all these things because they're grounded in reality and not based on The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales for Boys.
I take it you don't drive American then? :tea:
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:07 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Kalira9 wrote:I trust science because it has proven itself to be the best possible way to learn about and understand the world around us.

That is, unless you have a better method...
See, the problem is god-botherers only have one daffynition for "faith". I have faith in my truck getting me to the store and back with cheese. I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow. I have faith that magnetism works. I believe in all these things because they're grounded in reality and not based on The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales for Boys.
I take it you don't drive American then? :tea:
I don't drive a Morris Marina.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by QuarkyGideon » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:09 pm

thedistillers wrote: So let's say we have the following numbers: 2,4,6,8,10,13.

What you're doing is stopping at the number 10 and protesting that the next number MUST be 12, because why? IT WORKS!!! IT WORKS!!! + 2, +2, +2. IT WORKS!!! The next number is 12, because it works!!!

You can protest all night long, but the next number in the serie is 13.

If you're going to be a rational person, you just can't say "it works!".
:funny: :funny:
Of course this is not a series because there is no common addition. A rational person could tell you that. You could also tell me it is a series but because the sequence of numbers has no common addition it cannot by definition be a series.

To prove the next number must be 12 I shall assume you are using an Arithemetic Progression.

So:

The rules of the term:

2n

When n = 6 the answer is 12 not 13. Not because it works because I say so. But because according to my rule it must be 12. It cannot be 13. It takes a rational person to realise that this set of numbers is not described according to your rules. :tup:

Indeed you could say "ah yes but the rule changed!" well that's fucking obvious to a rational person too.

However the assumption that things remain the same has been maintained for a long time. You assumed that when you read this comment you'd be able to reply. That your house will not be attacked by a Tyranosaurus Rex armed with a teapot lasercannon. If you never made that assumption that it was the same that'd be irrational and you'd get nowhere.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Kalira9 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:13 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Kalira9 wrote:I trust science because it has proven itself to be the best possible way to learn about and understand the world around us.

That is, unless you have a better method...
See, the problem is god-botherers only have one daffynition for "faith". I have faith in my truck getting me to the store and back with cheese. I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow. I have faith that magnetism works. I believe in all these things because they're grounded in reality and not based on The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales for Boys.
I don't even like to use the word "faith" in terms of every-day things like that. In fact, I specifically try to avoid it, even in conversation. Regardless of how one tries to spin it, the textbook definition of faith is "belief without evidence". The fact that my car has passed inspection and that I am a safe driver is evidence to support the belief that that I will probably get from point A to point B without incident. There is no "faith" involved.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Feck » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:15 pm

:roll: Sorry since when do I place my trust in science .. what does mean it isn't science that makes me think things are generally going to behave in the ways I expect them to It's common sense, you can't function without that expectation . If I thought the brake fluid in my car was suddenly going to change its properties because science got it all wrong then I wouldn't drive so fast .If I thought hydraulic principles depended on the whim of god I wouldn't be driving I would be in a loony bin .

Sorry but this god rubbish makes no sense It really doesn't . The fact that most of your holy texts seem to portray your god as a raving sociopath are not helping my unbelief Oh and I don't mind loosing academic arguments about it It's still not true.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Chinaski » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:20 pm

thedistillers wrote: So let's say we have the following numbers: 2,4,6,8,10,13.

What you're doing is stopping at the number 10 and protesting that the next number MUST be 12, because why? IT WORKS!!! IT WORKS!!! + 2, +2, +2. IT WORKS!!! The next number is 12, because it works!!!

You can protest all night long, but the next number in the serie is 13.

If you're going to be a rational person, you just can't say "it works!".
Missed this inane post earlier.

You obviously have no idea about how the scientific method works.

Upon observing numbers 2 to 10 one could postulate the hypothesis that the next entity were to be 12. No scientist, however, will ever ignore the possibility, however slight, of being wrong- underdeterminism is too unavoidable an issue. Should he chance to be wrong, upon observing the entity "13", he will then proceed to re-formulate his theory taking into account this new development. Happens all the time within science- theories are improved and changed to meet new observations, ironically quite unlike the dogmatic and immutable guidelines religious people adhere to.

Not to mention what Gideon said.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:20 pm

Kalira9 wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Kalira9 wrote:I trust science because it has proven itself to be the best possible way to learn about and understand the world around us.

That is, unless you have a better method...
See, the problem is god-botherers only have one daffynition for "faith". I have faith in my truck getting me to the store and back with cheese. I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow. I have faith that magnetism works. I believe in all these things because they're grounded in reality and not based on The Bronze Age Goat-herders' Anthology of Campfire Tales for Boys.
I don't even like to use the word "faith" in terms of every-day things like that. In fact, I specifically try to avoid it, even in conversation. Regardless of how one tries to spin it, the textbook definition of faith is "belief without evidence". The fact that my car has passed inspection and that I am a safe driver is evidence to support the belief that that I will probably get from point A to point B without incident. There is no "faith" involved.
I refuse to let anybody else dictate my choice of words. The fundy morons will NOT hijack my language. So I'll use "faith" as appropriate. Others may chose do so as they will.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by tattuchu » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:26 pm

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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Kalira9 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:29 pm

Gawdzilla wrote: I refuse to let anybody else dictate my choice of words. The fundy morons will NOT hijack my language. So I'll use "faith" as appropriate. Others may chose do so as they will.
Hey that's fine, I wasn't trying to tell you not to use the word... I was just saying why I personally choose to avoid it.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:31 pm

Kalira9 wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote: I refuse to let anybody else dictate my choice of words. The fundy morons will NOT hijack my language. So I'll use "faith" as appropriate. Others may chose do so as they will.
Hey that's fine, I wasn't trying to tell you not to use the word... I was just saying why I personally choose to avoid it.
That's what my last sentence was about, BTW. :tup:
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by thedistillers » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:33 pm

I'm assuming that the atheist wants to be rational. That is to say, he wants to have a rational reason to believe what he believes.

But what rational reason does the atheist have to assume that the future will be like the past? None. So the atheist is irrational to assume that the laws of physics will still be valid tomorrow.

The theist, however, has a perfectly rational reason to believe that the laws of physics will still be valid tomorrow; God created the laws of the universe, and sustains them at any moment. Under atheism, the universe is irrational, without purpose, so tomorrow all atoms could start to jump around randomly, for no reason, just like a godless universe happens to exist for no reason.

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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:34 pm

"But what rational reason does the atheist have to assume that the future will be like the past? None. So the atheist is irrational to assume that the laws of physics will still be valid tomorrow. "

Very funny. But you have to show why they would change.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by cowiz » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:37 pm

I trust that the internet will throw up the occasional troll.
It's a piece of piss to be cowiz, but it's not cowiz to be a piece of piss. Or something like that.

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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:43 pm

pawiz wrote:I trust that the internet will throw up the occasional troll.
Strawman arguments are "Mental Pushups". It gets you pumped up in case anything or anybody serious comes along.
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Re: Why do atheists trust science?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:45 pm

thedistillers wrote:I'm assuming that the atheist wants to be rational. That is to say, he wants to have a rational reason to believe what he believes.

But what rational reason does the atheist have to assume that the future will be like the past? None. So the atheist is irrational to assume that the laws of physics will still be valid tomorrow.

The theist, however, has a perfectly rational reason to believe that the laws of physics will still be valid tomorrow; God created the laws of the universe, and sustains them at any moment. Under atheism, the universe is irrational, without purpose, so tomorrow all atoms could start to jump around randomly, for no reason, just like a godless universe happens to exist for no reason.
You pretty much lost your argument by assuming anything about the people here. Most of us only care about cheese and tits.

PS. Your arguments hold about as much water as an octogenarian. Feel free to amuse us with them for as long as you wish. :biggrin:
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