Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

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Lucy Wiggin
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Lucy Wiggin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:51 pm

:hugs:
With the demise of the forums and the defection of the moderators, it's is time to say our last words.

Lucy Wiggins: I don't like you. I think that you are a racist bitch with a victim complex and is narcissistic.

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Strontium Dog » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:18 pm

Lucy Wiggin wrote:I never quite got what the pro-Palestinians are after. Islamic republic? Lack of human rights? These are weird things for Atheists to aspire to, IMO.
Self-determination, I think. Would we not agree that self-determination is a right for any nation of people, whether Israeli or Palestinian?
100% verifiable facts or your money back. Anti-fascist. Enemy of woo - theistic or otherwise. Cloth is not an antiviral. Imagination and fantasy is no substitute for tangible reality. Wishing doesn't make it real.

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Lucy Wiggin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:19 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Lucy Wiggin wrote:I never quite got what the pro-Palestinians are after. Islamic republic? Lack of human rights? These are weird things for Atheists to aspire to, IMO.
Self-determination, I think. Would we not agree that self-determination is a right for any nation of people, whether Israeli or Palestinian?
If the pro-Palestinian crowd is looking for self-determination, why aren't they aspiring for democratic Jordan?
With the demise of the forums and the defection of the moderators, it's is time to say our last words.

Lucy Wiggins: I don't like you. I think that you are a racist bitch with a victim complex and is narcissistic.

-R.I.P
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Virus » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:22 pm

Hey Lucy I was going to ask you something before the RD forum died.

What's the deal with these smacktards?




Why would they want to go and live in Palestine, next to him:

Image

I think I know the answer, they're religious crackpots that believe God gave them the West Bank but I thought I'd ask for your view. Also, I think Jewish settlers are the crustiest god-ugly motherfuckers I've ever seen.
Last edited by Virus on Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Lucy Wiggin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:24 pm

Virus wrote:Hey Lucy I was going to ask you something before the RD forum died.

What's the deal with these smacktards?




I've got two questions about them;

Why would they want to go and live in Palestine, next to him:

Image

I think I know the answer, they're religious crackpots that believe God gave them the West Bank but I thought I'd ask for your view.
Don't have the time to watch this, but if we're talking settlers: Too many of them are bastards who are violent against the Palestinians and the army.
With the demise of the forums and the defection of the moderators, it's is time to say our last words.

Lucy Wiggins: I don't like you. I think that you are a racist bitch with a victim complex and is narcissistic.

-R.I.P
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Strontium Dog » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:28 pm

Lucy Wiggin wrote:If the pro-Palestinian crowd is looking for self-determination, why aren't they aspiring for democratic Jordan?
Who says they're not? But Jordan, whilst desperately unfree by Western standards, is one of the freest nations in the Middle East; presumably, there are bigger fish to fry.
100% verifiable facts or your money back. Anti-fascist. Enemy of woo - theistic or otherwise. Cloth is not an antiviral. Imagination and fantasy is no substitute for tangible reality. Wishing doesn't make it real.

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" - George Orwell

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Barry Goldwater

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Lucy Wiggin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:34 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Lucy Wiggin wrote:If the pro-Palestinian crowd is looking for self-determination, why aren't they aspiring for democratic Jordan?
Who says they're not? But Jordan, whilst desperately unfree by Western standards, is one of the freest nations in the Middle East; presumably, there are bigger fish to fry.
But I thought the pro-Palestinians are looking for a Palestinian self-determination, and the majority of people in Jordan is Palestinians. Shouldn't the pro-Palestinian crowd aspire to unite Jordan with the West Bank and Gaza and create one big Palestinian Islamic Republic? Either they're looking for self-determination, so it seems, only to a very specific group of Palestinians, and just aren't that fond of the rest. Not to mention that the Palestinian Authority needs Israeli and American guns in order to survive (I suppose Hamas is also self-determination, but it's a bad one).
With the demise of the forums and the defection of the moderators, it's is time to say our last words.

Lucy Wiggins: I don't like you. I think that you are a racist bitch with a victim complex and is narcissistic.

-R.I.P
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Virus » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:47 pm

Jordan won't touch them with a ten-foot pole. Not after they set up a state-within-a-state and tried to overthrow the government.
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Lucy Wiggin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:54 pm

Virus wrote:Jordan won't touch them with a ten-foot pole. Not after they set up a state-within-a-state and tried to overthrow the government.
Of course, but for some reason that doesn't seem to bother the pro-Palestinians.
With the demise of the forums and the defection of the moderators, it's is time to say our last words.

Lucy Wiggins: I don't like you. I think that you are a racist bitch with a victim complex and is narcissistic.

-R.I.P
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Gawd » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:59 pm

Looks like Israel is trying to annex more land, again. Or, they are trying to divert attention away from the Mossad for forging passports of other countries and executing scientists and politicians.

Israel's new war on Islamic sites
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010 ... 03649.html
In a move that appears to be a celebration of the 16th anniversary of the massacre of 29 worshippers by the terrorist Baruch Goldstein, the Israeli government has proclaimed that the Ibrahimi Mosque in Khalil (Hebron) and Masjid Bilal ibn Rabah (mosque) in Bethlehem are "Jewish Heritage sites".


Goldstein, an American-born Israeli settler who served as a medic in the military, opened fire on worshippers at a mosque in Hebron on February 25, 1994, killing 29 and wounding more than 150, before being subdued and beaten to death.

The announcement by the government of Binyamin Netanyahu, though not surprising, is the latest in a series of Israeli attacks on Islamic historical and religious sites in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

It is consistent with the Israelis' long-standing ambition to dispose of all non-Jewish religious symbols and presence in Palestine.

While the Israeli government was announcing the annexation of the Islamic sites, dozens of settlers attempted to storm into Jericho on the pretext that they were visiting an ancient synagogue.

Under the Gaza-Jericho Agreement of May 1994, Israel agreed to dissolve its civil administration and "transferred its powers and responsibilities to the Palestinian Authority".

Israel disinterested in peace

In his first reaction to the annexation of the Ibrahimi Mosque, Amr Moussa, the Secretary General of the Arab League, said: "This proves that Israel is not interested in peace and negotiations."

The question is: when was Israel ever interested in such? When has it ever recognised the rights of the Palestinians? Israel’s founding fathers made no secret of the fact that they wanted all of historic Palestine, but without the Palestinians and all that is associated with their history.

Hence, David Ben Gurion recorded in his memoirs, The Revolt: "The partition of the Homeland [Israel] is illegal. It will never be recognised. The signature by institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And forever."

Everything that has happened in Palestine since 1948, and in Jerusalem and Hebron in particular over the past year, can be explained in the context of this statement.

Those who ignore it, not least the Arab and Muslim leadership, do so at their peril.

That having been said, the timing of these latest provocations against the Ibrahimi Mosque has not gone unnoticed.

The Israeli moves come at a time of huge embarrassment for the European patrons of the Zionist project, who saw their passports, among them diplomatic documents, being used illegally to carry out the murder of a Palestinian figure in Dubai, a "moderate" and thus by definition a friendly country.
........
US slams Israel over designating heritage sites
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02482.html
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration criticized Israel Wednesday for designating two shrines on Palestinian territory as national heritage sites.

The criticism came as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said she hopes long-stalled peace talks between Israelis and the Palestinians will resume. Clinton told a congressional committee that groundwork is being laid to restart the talks with the help of U.S. envoy George Mitchell.

She didn't say exactly when the negotiations might resume but her remarks come amid a flurry of U.S. diplomatic activity in the region.

They come as the United States, Russia and their Mideast peace partners are trying to organize a strategy session among top diplomats in the Russian capital next month to prod the two sides to relaunch the negotiations.

"We hope that that will commence shortly," Clinton told the Senate Appropriations Committee, referring to Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. "We think it is absolutely necessary that they begin to talk about the final-status issues that divide them, that have perpetuated the conflict over all of these years."

Underscoring those difficulties, the State Department on Wednesday sharply criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government for adding two shrines in the West Bank to Israel's list of national heritage sites. The move, announced Sunday, sparked Palestinian protests and has drawn criticism from other quarters, including the United Nations.

State Department spokesman Mark Toner said the administration viewed the move as "provocative" and unhelpful to the goal of getting the two sides back to the table.

Toner said U.S. displeasure with the designations of the Cave of the Patriarchs in the flashpoint town of Hebron and the traditional tomb of the biblical matriarch Rachel in Bethlehem had been conveyed to to senior Israeli officials by American diplomats.

The Palestinians claim all of the West Bank as part of a future state and also protested the Israeli move - a largely symbolic gesture - as a provocation and the move heightened long-standing tensions, particularly around the shrine in Hebron.

Jews revere the site as the Cave of the Patriarchs, where the Bible says the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were buried along with three of their wives. Muslims call it the al-Ibrahimi mosque, reflecting the fact that Abraham is considered the father of both Judaism and Islam.
..........

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Martok » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:34 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Lucy Wiggin wrote:If the pro-Palestinian crowd is looking for self-determination, why aren't they aspiring for democratic Jordan?
Who says they're not? But Jordan, whilst desperately unfree by Western standards, is one of the freest nations in the Middle East; presumably, there are bigger fish to fry.
But Jordan is less free than Israel. Freedom of the press, women's rights, and gay rights lag behind Israel.

I do admire king Abdullah. He seems to want to move Jordan in the same direction as Israel. But he has a tougher job ahead of him since he has to deal with tribalism and Islam.

Besides, he's also a Star Trek fan and he gets bonus points for that. I wish him well.

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Valden » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:49 pm

Gawd wrote:You know it was coming. I will summarize the previous 3 years of the Israel/Palestine thread below:

Rest of the World: Israel, why won't you recognize non-Jewish refugees?
Zionists: They are not Jews, that's why. And you're an anti-Semite.

Rest of the World: Israel, why don't you change your racist immigration laws to allow non-Jews equal chance to become citizens?
Zionists: They are not Jews, that's why. And you're an anti-Semite.

Rest of the World: Israel, why are you blockading the sea border of Gaza when you have no international rights to do so? The people of Gaza need to use it to transport vital food, medicine, and materials so that they can live and not be in perpetual poverty.
Zionists: They are not Jews, that's why. And you're an anti-Semite.

Rest of the World: Israel, why did you kill 1400 civilians in the Gaza Massacre and only a handful of what you label as "terrorists".
Zionists: They are not Jews, that's why. And you're an anti-Semite.

Rest of the World: Israel, why don't you recognize that other groups experienced genocide in WWII and that they greatly outnumber "Jewish" deaths?
Zionists: They are not Jews, that's why. And you're an anti-Semite.

Rest of the World: Define who is a "Jew".
Zionists: You are an anti-Semite, a Nazi, a KKK, and not fit to be a "Jew". JEW POWER! JEW POWER! JEW POWER!

And so on and so on.
You forgot one!

Rest of the world: Arabs are also Semitic. Why do you not say "anti-Semite!" when anyone criticizes an Arabic nation?
Zionist: Because they're not Jews, and only Jews have claim over "anti-Semite" and anyone else who says anti-Semite when not referring to a Jew is also an anti-Semite.

:biggrin:

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by ED209 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:49 pm

Lucy Wiggin wrote:
Jay G wrote:
Lucy Wiggin wrote:
Jay G wrote:Well, Well....

It's nice to know that the Jew-hatred has followed us to this forum, along with the Anti-American preudice. NOW it feels like home!!


(I wonder if RDF will take me back)
It wouldn't be the same without them. I'd like to wish all the those who support the lovely regimes of Syria, Iran, etc. etc.: May you live in the regime of your dreams.

For certain you will never see that. They love support countries like Iran and Syria but don't realize that if they lived in these countries, they wouldn't last more than a few days.
Yet they're willing to support them. That's what I call hypocrisy.

Out of interest, what happens when the pile of strawmen gets so high that it becomes impossible to get any more on top?

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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Jay G » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:33 pm

ED209 wrote:
Lucy Wiggin wrote:
Jay G wrote:
Lucy Wiggin wrote:
Jay G wrote:Well, Well....

It's nice to know that the Jew-hatred has followed us to this forum, along with the Anti-American preudice. NOW it feels like home!!


(I wonder if RDF will take me back)
It wouldn't be the same without them. I'd like to wish all the those who support the lovely regimes of Syria, Iran, etc. etc.: May you live in the regime of your dreams.

For certain you will never see that. They love support countries like Iran and Syria but don't realize that if they lived in these countries, they wouldn't last more than a few days.
Yet they're willing to support them. That's what I call hypocrisy.

Out of interest, what happens when the pile of strawmen gets so high that it becomes impossible to get any more on top?

Then it falls on top of you :biggrin:
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Re: Israel/Palestine Thread Part XXX

Post by Lucy Wiggin » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:26 am

Apollonius wrote:I learned to completely ignore all threads about Israel on the RD.net forums, or just give myself a 2-post limit and move on.

There is just no use trying to voice your opinion about it.

I've been to Israel twice and looked and listened carefully. My impression is that politics and religion are hopelessly entangled, and this is a tradition that goes back over 2,000 years. Israelis are stubborn and don't think there is such a thing as an Israeli mistake. This even was evident in the ones I was meeting for business. I have a funny story about that but I will save it.
It amazes me that you can write this approximately 2,367 times, and each time with the same sense of self-importance and I-know-better.
With the demise of the forums and the defection of the moderators, it's is time to say our last words.

Lucy Wiggins: I don't like you. I think that you are a racist bitch with a victim complex and is narcissistic.

-R.I.P
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