Capitalism is shit

[macdoc]

Capitalism is an economic system....humans decide the direction...some behave badly...some benefit humanity widely.....nor are those behaving badly entirely unchecked.....even within individual corporate structures

....Exxon vs the Rockefellers on the board comes to mind on a macro scale.

The Mercury News
ExxonMobil shareholders revolt to force climate action
https://www.mercurynews.com › 2017/05/31 › exxon...
31 May 2017 — Major shareholders have also leveled criticism at ExxonMobil's board of directors. ... age of 72. Unhappy about those issues, BlackRock voted .

...EPA vs Dupont another

E.I. DuPont de Nemours and Company and The Chemours Company PFOA Settlements
There are several settlements between the EPA and the E.I. DuPont de Nemours Company and the Chemours Company for the Washington Works facility, located in Washington, West Virginia. These settlements relate to different environmental statutes, including the Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, and Toxic Substances Control Act, and they are described in more detail below.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/ei-dupo ... July%20and

Humans abuse humans in every endeavour and humans aid humans in every field.
Blaming an economic system is ridiculous.

[pErvinalia]

It's a system that encourages competition moreso than cooperation, and exploitation of peoples basic need to survive. It's not surprising it goes bad.

[macdoc]

Oh??...seems to me the laws against collusion...ie the cooperation of price fixing etc are required far more often than "too much competition".

Far worse is govs like the UK providing a monopoly on provision of necessities ....lets take water for example.

Show me a concrete example of where competition results in exploitation.
It's almost an oxymoron since competition inherently provides choices.

[pErvinalia]

Competition for lower wages (primarily offshore). Capitalist take advantage of poorer employee rights and workplace conditions in the third world.

And the whole system is based on exploitation. A system where you either work or starve is by definition exploitation.

[macdoc]

Not all corporations do that..it is not inherent to a capitalist economy, it is a choice management makes.
It's ridiculous to say "the whole system is based on exploitation" ....do you really think every capitalist based organization is based on exploitation. ???!!!

[pErvinalia]

It literally is if you are forced to sell your labour or starve.

[macdoc]

That would apply to any relationship...has nought to do with any ism.
You are scrambling boyo.

[pErvinalia]

Socialism theoretically doesn't function like that. In any case you were incredulous that capitalism is exploitative. I just showed you how it is.

[Brian Peacock]

As pErvy said, if one's survival is necessarily dependent on devoting your calories to increasing the prosperity of another person or entity, and you have no choice in that, then you are a slave. If the root of that money-making exercise is the untrammelled exploitation and eventual depletion of the Earth's natural resources, upon which all life depends, then the end-game of that system is the eradication of life on Earth. We have the knowledge and understanding, and the technical means, for our species to live well and in balance with other species and the natural world; to replace capitalism with systems which meet all our material needs, protect the environment, replenish the resource upon which we rely, and which promote and secure fundamental human rights and the freedom to pursue our interests and passions - both individually and as a species. I'm calling that alternative 'Total Ecological Luxury'. Sisters and brothers and others: Join me, the only thing you have to lose are your mental chains and your contractual obligations to you line manager!

[Tero]

But if you are doing less work than if you operated on your own? Your slave master exploits people in Asia and you just sell their products.

[macdoc]

Hilarious....

Perv ....ANY organized system CAN be exploitive..it is a choice by those running it .....oh say perhaps the Jesuits and the whole religious claptrap exploiting humans...and too often historically with the govs collusion.
Humans behaving badly is in no way limited to capitalism

Ummm Brian et al ...you keep sticking " no choice" in your anti-capitalist rants...in reality there is choice...capital must compete for labour and labours offset to corporate power is unions ....unions which CAN be exploitive and as cruel as any other endeavour...forcing people to join, paying dues...why almost sounds like tithing
Perhaps what you might rant at is conscription.... At least the wanna be priest chooses to be exploited

Tero again you are assuming slave master and exploitation when in fact the reality is successful corps with good labour relations over time ...especially in Germany, Japan and nordic nations unions and management work together even to the point of unions being on board of directors.
I found it ironic that the first Walmart unions....were in China
Now Walmart and others that CHOOSE to be exploitive of workers are a plague on humanity...not all sovereign nations put up with it...regretfully too many do.

Funny how that works with those Nordic nations and Japan being the best developed nations vs a vie GINI scores despite having strong capitalist component to their economies..it is a choice those nations make.
They also have a strong socialist component......as Nash correctly pointed out, Adam Smith was wrong.

[Brian Peacock]

merged

[Brian Peacock]

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strawherringslope.jpg (39.63 KiB) Viewed 253 times

[macdoc]

changing a title to suit your misperceptions.....

[JimC]

In a capitalist economic system, there is a strong tendency for business owners/corporations to maximise profits. Sometimes, of course, this can be achieved by bringing to the market new, innovative products or solutions, which (environmental aspects asides) benefits both consumers and the company. It is this innovative aspect of capitalism, along with competition (which is not always real, but can be important) that can reasonably be touted as a success of capitalism.

However, in searching for higher profits, there is always the temptation to provide products which don't last long, to trash local environments if that is the cheaper option, and to give workers very minimal pay and conditions. This is not necessarily because the people in charge are evil bastards, but because of the inherent nature of the model of maximising profits.

As a counter to that, we have unions, and a variety of government regulations. In western democracies, these defang the most grasping companies to a certain extent, some nations being more effective than others. But often, in third world countries, these mitigating factors are virtually non-existent. The rise over the past decades of global corporations basing their factories in such places is very, very telling...