Anyone for Democracy? (Zombie Coup derail)

[Hermit]

The US was never intended to be a democracy. But then they had to change the definition of democracy and get everybody's knickers in a twist.

Quite so. In that era practically nobody intended to establish a democracy in terms we understand it now. Universal suffrage was not on the table. What was on the table was the abolition of government by birth right and divine rule, and theocracy that served as their foundattion. Revolutions were fought out between monarchs and aristocrats on one side and the urban bourgeoisie and rural property owners (which included slave owners in the US) on the other. In addition to excluding women, there were property requirements. In other words, democracy, in so far as the word was used, was meant to be limited to owners of lands and buildings. This was the case during the US revolution in 1775, the French revolution in 1789, the European upheavals in the 1830s and the many European revolutions (all of which failed) in 1848/9.

In short, no revolution was attempted with what we now regard as democracy in mind until the short-lived Paris Commune in 1871.

[Tero]

Well, it was not so much an attempt to get democracy as it was to find a way to merge very unlike states into a federation. To get the approval to get the constitution passed, for example, they had to have the senate, with two senators each.

[Tero]

I have a new book on Populism by Benjamin Moffitt. The emphasis is on modern right wing populism, though some politicians from the 70s may be covered. Protest from the left is barely there.

I gather from Tucker Carlson, from reading the back cover of his book, is that the main problem with our politics is that the "elites" have hijacked it. There are in fact academics that support populist movements for democracy. The fact that trumpsters need to be represented. The ones we have in congress are funded by small donations, so once they are in congress, lobby groups can't control them with money. In that sense there is some connection to democracy. From the book:

[Tero]

The next paragraph.

[Tero]

Not an academic field I would want to br in. There may be countries where the majority keeps a leader in power in a near dictatorship. The majority culture and religion then rules what the mknority cannot do. Natiolism works that route too.

[Sean Hayden]

Our democracy feels wild as hell to me. Sometimes I think it's just tacked on to rationalize chaotic group behavior, grant a measure of respectability to deceitful apes, and maintain an illusion of progress.

[Svartalf]

When you have the best democracy money can buy, it's as wild as the highest bidder