Lisa Montgomery

[Woodbutcher]

I am a vengeful person, I would want to pull the trigger myself. Not nice, but I'm too old to pretend to be something I'm not. I don't really understand people who forgive the asshole who murdered their loved one, it's simply not something I would be able to do.

Mrs. Lak says it's because I need to raise my vibrational level, but I'm happy being a low vibin' motherfucker.

A shotgun blast up the arsehole would be my way of executing some of those critters. Then grind them up for pet food.

[Cunt]

I am a vengeful person, I would want to pull the trigger myself. Not nice, but I'm too old to pretend to be something I'm not. I don't really understand people who forgive the asshole who murdered their loved one, it's simply not something I would be able to do.

Mrs. Lak says it's because I need to raise my vibrational level, but I'm happy being a low vibin' motherfucker.

I'd send you cigarettes.

[Svartalf]

I don't blame Trump. At least it didn't occur to me to do so.

I'm also not always ready to blame the system, keeping in mind the system is, well, in the system too. And while forgetting blame to focus on solutions sounds like the next best thing to run to, I'm not sure it works either. Does anyone have a way to ensure nobody ever loses their mind and kills?

Anyway, I was really interested in getting at the unsatisfactory nature of our arguments against capital punishment from a certain perspective.

Well, he's not the ONLY villain in this sorry miscarriage of justice, but he's certainly the one to blame for it reaching its heart stopping climax.

As for blaming the system, it sure looks like any number of pieces and steps went awfully awry, but of course, the fault is less in the system itself than in the people who, through incompetence, ideological fanaticism or sheer malice, failed to properly carry out their role in the machinery

My problem in this matter is the odious miscarriage of a law used in a way it never should have, and the merciless killing of a killer who did not fill the requisites of damnable guilt.

In a way, I feel poor Lisa filled the same role as did the sow who, in the 1200s, was tried and hanged for willfully and maliciously running into a horse, startling the animal and causing the rider to fall and break his neck..

Your anger about this miscarriage of justice is unlikely to compare to what the victim's husband feels about his wife's death. A death, which, were it up to you, he'd be convinced was the result of nothing more sinister than a mindless disaster.

But the woman murdered his wife, cut her open, and took out her baby. What does the victim's husband feel*, and how does your solution address it?

*It may be worth finding out, as some victims don't want the death penalty.

Not a mindless disaster, but one cause by an instance that was not fit to bear responsibility for its acts.
I'm not saying she was innocent of the deed. I'm saying that :

a) she was not sane enough to be judicially found responsible and thus made to suffer the legal penalty for her crime

b) At any rate, she was tried in the wrong court and found guilty of a crime that was not at all the intent of the law under which she was indicted. That law was intended to punish child killers, and the victim was no child.
If she was to be tried for the death, she should have been tried in state court under Missouri law.

[pErvinalia]

We've had a heinous murder suicide in Australia in the last few days. A mother murder-suicided with her three children. Not often you see mothers, as opposed to fathers, doing that.

[Svartalf]

More often than you would think.
Paterfamiliases will murder the whole family because they can't stand their charges and lessers to outlive them
Mothers will kill their children so they can bring them to the other side and not be alone.

[Sean Hayden]

Not a mindless disaster, but one cause by an instance that was not fit to bear responsibility for its acts.

The difference to the husband being what exactly?

I'm not saying she was innocent of the deed. I'm saying that :
a) she was not sane enough to be judicially found responsible and thus made to suffer the legal penalty for her crime

Again, this matters to the husband because? I think he's in a unique position to see through all our bullshit. When we tell him the person who murdered his wife wasn't sane, he'll probably agree, but why should he care?

b) At any rate, she was tried in the wrong court and found guilty of a crime that was not at all the intent of the law under which she was indicted. That law was intended to punish child killers, and the victim was no child.

If she was to be tried for the death, she should have been tried in state court under Missouri law.

Now you just sound like a lawyer. Nobody cares what court she was tried in.

[Svartalf]

There's no difference to the hubby, but you know, we're in a civilized country where justice is not just state monitored vengeance. If it were, we'd just have kept the good old Icelandic system of feuds being private until somebody brings them to the Thing for overview and arbitration.

Fuck the husband, his loss is immense, but that has nothing to do with the legal treatment of the affair.

and I CAN sound like a lawyer, I may have flunked law school, but I still got the culture and family tradition.
and you can bet legal minded people do care... well, maybe not so much anymore, since her being dead makes all legal points moot, but still.

[Cunt]

We've had a heinous murder suicide in Australia in the last few days. A mother murder-suicided with her three children. Not often you see mothers, as opposed to fathers, doing that.

In Canada, the information about gendered violence is heavily coloured by woman's org's.

There is a shitty story, none of you would bother with. Guy named Silverberg tried to open a mens shelter. He couldn't get anywhere, because the info available to government suggested that only women were victims. In order to try to have contrary evidence entered into a formal court record, he 'threatened' the judge (referencing a Star Trek 'phazer', if I recall correctly). They charged him, but later withdrew the charges, so he didn't get to enter his evidence.

A little after, he hung himself in his garage.

No need to sympathize, just go on thinking that only men are smart or capable enough to be heinous.

But if you want to know how shitty women are (compared to men) look at domestic violence numbers divided into these groups:
male-female pairings
male-male pairings
female-female pairings

Any predictions on who is most violent?

[Sean Hayden]

Fuck the husband, his loss is immense, but that has nothing to do with the legal treatment of the affair.

On the contrary, it has a lot to do with it.

I believe the comment about a civilized country and the absence of capital punishment falls into the category of things the husband is in a unique position to see through i.e. bullshit, the notion shrinking to irrelevance next to the sum of advancements which form the actual basis of our more civilized lives e.g. technological, medical and economic. In our current state 300,000+ of our fellow citizens may die and the rest of us are merely inconvenienced, and presumably only temporarily. Yet, the husband is to believe the state of civilization owes its continued functioning to allowing his wife's murderer, and others like her to go on living.

Pull the other one, it's got bells.

[Cunt]

Fuck the husband, his loss is immense, but that has nothing to do with the legal treatment of the affair.

On the contrary, it has a lot to do with it.

I believe the comment about a civilized country and the absence of capital punishment falls into the category of things the husband is in a unique position to see through i.e. bullshit, the notion shrinking to irrelevance next to the sum of advancements which form the actual basis of our more civilized lives e.g. technological, medical and economic. In our current state 300,000+ of our fellow citizens may die and the rest of us are merely inconvenienced, and presumably only temporarily. Yet, the husband is to believe the state of civilization owes its continued functioning to allowing his wife's murderer, and others like her to go on living.

Pull the other one, it's got bells.

That's the same for all of it, really.

We let the justice system take our vengeful reflex away. It is 'allowed' to by guys like the husband. He could have gone all 'Law Abiding Citizen', but because of his acceptance of 'justice', he didn't.

Faith in the system is valuable. It's why fucking with due process is ignorant and reckless.

[Hermit]

We've had a heinous murder suicide in Australia in the last few days. A mother murder-suicided with her three children. Not often you see mothers, as opposed to fathers, doing that.

In Canada, the information about gendered violence is heavily coloured by woman's org's.

There is a shitty story, none of you would bother with. Guy named Silverberg tried to open a mens shelter. He couldn't get anywhere, because the info available to government suggested that only women were victims. In order to try to have contrary evidence entered into a formal court record, he 'threatened' the judge (referencing a Star Trek 'phazer', if I recall correctly). They charged him, but later withdrew the charges, so he didn't get to enter his evidence.

A little after, he hung himself in his garage.

No need to sympathize, just go on thinking that only men are smart or capable enough to be heinous.

But if you want to know how shitty women are (compared to men) look at domestic violence numbers divided into these groups:
male-female pairings
male-male pairings
female-female pairings

Any predictions on who is most violent?

You're channelling Christina Marie Hoff Sommers. The ratio between females who murder their male partners and males who murder their females is horrific. Same can be said about rape.

[Cunt]

We've had a heinous murder suicide in Australia in the last few days. A mother murder-suicided with her three children. Not often you see mothers, as opposed to fathers, doing that.

In Canada, the information about gendered violence is heavily coloured by woman's org's.

There is a shitty story, none of you would bother with. Guy named Silverberg tried to open a mens shelter. He couldn't get anywhere, because the info available to government suggested that only women were victims. In order to try to have contrary evidence entered into a formal court record, he 'threatened' the judge (referencing a Star Trek 'phazer', if I recall correctly). They charged him, but later withdrew the charges, so he didn't get to enter his evidence.

A little after, he hung himself in his garage.

No need to sympathize, just go on thinking that only men are smart or capable enough to be heinous.

But if you want to know how shitty women are (compared to men) look at domestic violence numbers divided into these groups:
male-female pairings
male-male pairings
female-female pairings

Any predictions on who is most violent?

You're channelling Christina Marie Hoff Sommers. The ratio between females who murder their male partners and males who murder their females is horrific. Same can be said about rape.

So no predictions about who is more frequently violent to others?

Or are you just pointing out that sex differences are real and important?

[Hermit]

We've had a heinous murder suicide in Australia in the last few days. A mother murder-suicided with her three children. Not often you see mothers, as opposed to fathers, doing that.

In Canada, the information about gendered violence is heavily coloured by woman's org's.

There is a shitty story, none of you would bother with. Guy named Silverberg tried to open a mens shelter. He couldn't get anywhere, because the info available to government suggested that only women were victims. In order to try to have contrary evidence entered into a formal court record, he 'threatened' the judge (referencing a Star Trek 'phazer', if I recall correctly). They charged him, but later withdrew the charges, so he didn't get to enter his evidence.

A little after, he hung himself in his garage.

No need to sympathize, just go on thinking that only men are smart or capable enough to be heinous.

But if you want to know how shitty women are (compared to men) look at domestic violence numbers divided into these groups:
male-female pairings
male-male pairings
female-female pairings

Any predictions on who is most violent?

You're channelling Christina Marie Hoff Sommers. The ratio between females who murder their male partners and males who murder their females is horrific. Same can be said about rape.

So no predictions about who is more frequently violent to others?

Looking at the number of rapes, murders and numbers of men suffering from the battered husband syndrome my prediction is that men are the most violent.

Statistical example concerning spousal violence from Family Violence in Canada

• When looking at the most serious types of violence reported to the survey, it was found that a larger proportion of women reported being beaten, choked, or threatened with or had a gun or knife used against them by their intimate partner than were men (23% versus 15%).

• Women were also much more likely to report that they were the targets of more than ten violent incidents at the hands of their partner (21% versus 11%), and more likely to state that they were injured as a result of the violence (44% versus 18%).

• It was also found that female victims of spousal violence were three times more likely than male victims of spousal violence to fear for their life (34% versus 10%) and three times more likely to take time off from their everyday activities because of the violence (29% versus 10%).

[Cunt]

Yes, but the difference I was asking about was in gay couples.

Do men more often get violent with intimate partners? Or women?

[Hermit]

Do men more often get violent with intimate partners? Or women?

Oh. You changed the question. Originally, it was

Any predictions on who is most violent?

I'll stick with that, and the answer is: Men.