Bothsidesing

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Hermit
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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Hermit » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:07 am

Seabass wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:13 am
JimC wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 pm
What I meant was, even if passed federally, the States may stand on their constitutional rights, which I understand includes effective control of the voting process their way in each state...
Congress has the constitutional authority to legislate how our elections are run. The states would have to comply with federal laws.
Mindful of the numerous comments by our resident right wing nuts to the contrary, I was sceptical about your assertion, so I checked out this copy of the Constitution of the United States. It only took me just a few minutes to discover that you are exactly right. The relevant text is near the start of the document, namely in Article 1, Section 4, first paragraph:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
For all intents and purposes it seems to be a dead letter, though.
So you talk about mobs and the working classes as if they were the question. You've got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have been rebels, but they have never been anarchists; they have more interest than anyone else in there being some decent government. The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all. Aristocrats were always anarchists. - G.K. Chesterton

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Joe » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:12 am

Hermit wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:07 am
Seabass wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:13 am
JimC wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 pm
What I meant was, even if passed federally, the States may stand on their constitutional rights, which I understand includes effective control of the voting process their way in each state...
Congress has the constitutional authority to legislate how our elections are run. The states would have to comply with federal laws.
Mindful of the numerous comments by our resident right wing nuts to the contrary, I was sceptical about your assertion, so I checked out this copy of the Constitution of the United States. It only took me just a few minutes to discover that you are exactly right. The relevant text is near the start of the document, namely in Article 1, Section 4, first paragraph:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
For all intents and purposes it seems to be a dead letter, though.
Well, as a resident wingnut I guess I should point out that the authority you cite is limited to "Elections for Senators and Representatives." :tut:

As usual, it's more complicated than that because the powers are divided between the Feds and the States in different ways for different elections. So Article II, Section 1 - changed by the 12th Amendment - sets out a different division for Presidential elections. State and local elections are another affair with the 10th Amendment provision that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People" balanced with protections governing all elections in the 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th Amendments.

And then there are the Supreme and lower court decisions trying to clarify this mess of conflicting powers and omissions at the federal level with 50 different State constitutions.

In practice, the States have powers they are jealous of and resist giving up.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Hermit » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:41 am

Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:12 am
Hermit wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:07 am
Seabass wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:13 am
JimC wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 pm
What I meant was, even if passed federally, the States may stand on their constitutional rights, which I understand includes effective control of the voting process their way in each state...
Congress has the constitutional authority to legislate how our elections are run. The states would have to comply with federal laws.
Mindful of the numerous comments by our resident right wing nuts to the contrary, I was sceptical about your assertion, so I checked out this copy of the Constitution of the United States. It only took me just a few minutes to discover that you are exactly right. The relevant text is near the start of the document, namely in Article 1, Section 4, first paragraph:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
For all intents and purposes it seems to be a dead letter, though.
Well, as a resident wingnut I guess I should point out that the authority you cite is limited to "Elections for Senators and Representatives." :tut:

As usual, it's more complicated than that because the powers are divided between the Feds and the States in different ways for different elections. So Article II, Section 1 - changed by the 12th Amendment - sets out a different division for Presidential elections. State and local elections are another affair with the 10th Amendment provision that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People" balanced with protections governing all elections in the 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th Amendments.

And then there are the Supreme and lower court decisions trying to clarify this mess of conflicting powers and omissions at the federal level with 50 different State constitutions.

In practice, the States have powers they are jealous of and resist giving up.
Thanks for pointing out where I went wrong. :tipshat:

Turns out to be on grounds of an embarrassing lack of reading comprehension of a pretty uncomplicated sentence, but I prefer the embarrassment to being left to entertain erroneous opinions.

Now I'd like to know which words of the Constitution gives Congress the constitutional authority to legislate how our elections are run. Seabass, care to quote them?
So you talk about mobs and the working classes as if they were the question. You've got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have been rebels, but they have never been anarchists; they have more interest than anyone else in there being some decent government. The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all. Aristocrats were always anarchists. - G.K. Chesterton

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Seabass » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:31 pm

Image
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Seabass » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:08 pm

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dodge-city ... k-mandate/
Kansas mayor resigns after threats over backing mask mandate: "I do not feel safe in this position anymore"


A western Kansas mayor announced her immediate resignation Tuesday because of threats she has received after publicly supporting a mask mandate during the COVID-19 pandemic. Dodge City Mayor Joyce Warshaw said she was concerned about her safety after encountering aggression, including threats via phone and email, after she was quoted in a USA Today article Friday supporting a mask mandate, The Dodge City Globe reported.

"Life has dealt out many challenges in our world that have perhaps caused many people to act inappropriately but I do not feel safe in this position anymore and am hopeful in removing myself this anger, accusations and abuse will not fall on anyone else and will calm down," Warshaw wrote in her resignation letter.

The commission voted 4-1 on November 16 to impose a mask mandate, with several exceptions.

Ford County, where Dodge City is located, has recorded 4,914 cases of COVID-19 since the pandemic began, according to the state health department. The county has about 33,600 residents.

Public health officials have called for universal mask wearing to help slow the spread of the pandemic, which has killed more than 300,000 Americans.

Warshaw said despite the threats, she doesn't regret voting in favor of the mask mandate.

"This is harder for me than people realize," Warshaw said as she began to cry. "I really love this city with all my heart. I still believe in this city, and I believe in their ability to not harm one another."

Warshaw told MSNBC on Wednesday that she has relocated out of Dodge City. She also said she changed her political registration from Republican to unaffiliated, "simply because the Republican Party isn't the Republican Party that I know."

Some of the threatening emails have been turned over to police. Specific details of the threats were not provided.

Dodge City Police Chief Drew Francis said the department is looking into the communications to determine its response.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:51 pm

This "political registration" thing of yours seems very bizarre to Australian ears...
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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Seabass » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:53 pm

Yeah, I've always found registering with a party gross, too. It's why I always stayed unaffiliated until the GOP went fascist...
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Joe » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:54 pm

So the mayor "got out of Dodge," eh?

I'll let myself out...
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:58 pm

Seabass wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:53 pm
Yeah, I've always found registering with a party gross, too. It's why I always stayed unaffiliated until the GOP went fascist...
In Oz, you can become a "member" of a political party (and pay some dues to do so), but only a relatively few do so. They help with campaigning etc.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:47 pm

Joe wrote:So the mayor "got out of Dodge," eh?

I'll let myself out...
:rimshot:
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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:36 pm

Joe wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:54 pm
So the mayor "got out of Dodge," eh?
Not only that, she's dodged a bullet...

At least so far...
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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Joe » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:12 pm

Well, I hate to say this but it sounds like the local lawmen aren't living up to the traditions of their predecessors like Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson if they can't keep the mayor safe. :wumbo:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:42 pm

From what one hears about US cops, they'd probably prefer to shoot her themselves...

"Judge, she was a clear and present danger to our American way of life"
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Joe » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:01 am

Yeah, it's too bad they don't see the danger of enforcing only the laws you agree with. History doesn't seem to be a strong subject here.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: Bothsidesing

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:23 am

Registration is the first undemocratic hurdle that is placed before voters. Imagine having to declare your voting intension. In a civilised country that is between you and the ballot box. Is this to do with primaries?
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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