The state of the UK

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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:31 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Another purely American affair again where they cant decide where (neo)liberalism sits in their political spectrum which is so right wing anything left of Attila the Hun is off their spectrum.
Capitalism is the total global system. Neoliberaliam is it's current manifestation. No country has any choice really, other than to sign up or suffer the consequences. Neoliberaliam is Capitalist Realism, as Mark Fisher called it.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:41 pm

If you say so. I looked up Hennipman and it appeared he had nothing to do with Neoliberalism. He was busy with the welvaartsstaat (welfare state) and its consequences. Of course you declared the claim. I am not arguing but neoliberalism had nothing to do with Europe. Liberalism moves from one end of the spectrum to the other when crossing the pond.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Hermit » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:20 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:41 pm
If you say so. I looked up Hennipman and it appeared he had nothing to do with Neoliberalism. He was busy with the welvaartsstaat (welfare state) and its consequences.
Unsubstantiated claim.
By simultaneously rejecting socialism and classical liberalism while proposing a state-led battle against monopolies and cartels, Hennipman sided with the advocates of a new branch of liberal thought: the self-proclaimed ‘neoliberals’.
[...]
The Dutch case also demonstrates that the neoliberals’ stance against social security resonated in the aftermath of the Second World War. Although it is hard to measure the exact influence of neoliberal ideas, a closer analysis of the Dutch newspapers and political parties demonstrates that various parliamentary parties, most notably those of liberals, Catholics and Calvinists, were influenced by and sometimes explicitly embraced neoliberal ideas.
Cambridge University Press paywalled the article, but you can download it from here. Feel free to come back when you've read it, but no cherry picking, please.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:05 am

This is all conjecture and only page 1. No definitions. What liberalism? The right wing version or the left wing version. That is the trouble using the liberal flag; it varies so much. Even in the VVD has various definitions. Rutte's liberalism has nothing to do with Wiegel's (considered the father of the VVD) version which was far right. Dutch politics after the war and during the "Wederopbouw" (reconstruction) was in drastic flux. Lurching from far left to centre left. In the 60's it moved to centre right with the creation of the D66 party which took members from the VVD and PvdA. Today there is no talk of liberalism as the D66 and VVD has to form a minority coalition six months after the election.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:59 am

Well in the Anglo world liberalism is economically right and socially leftish. It's the Anglo-Saxon mindset. Chumocracy!
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Hermit » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:07 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:05 am
This is all conjecture and only page 1. No definitions. What liberalism? The right wing version or the left wing version. That is the trouble using the liberal flag; it varies so much. Even in the VVD has various definitions. Rutte's liberalism has nothing to do with Wiegel's (considered the father of the VVD) version which was far right. Dutch politics after the war and during the "Wederopbouw" (reconstruction) was in drastic flux. Lurching from far left to centre left. In the 60's it moved to centre right with the creation of the D66 party which took members from the VVD and PvdA. Today there is no talk of liberalism as the D66 and VVD has to form a minority coalition six months after the election.
It's 14 pages. I told you where you can get a hold of them. The bit after the ellipsis in my quote comes from page 14. Guess you didn't bother reading it. Else you might have wondered where the fuck I got that from.

I also gave you some pointers where neoliberalism came from. It was born in Europe, but spouting unsupported assertions seems to give you much pleasure, so just keep talking out of your arse.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:09 am

At its core, Neoliberaliam is a political ideology which maintains that the only legitimate venue for social interchange is the marketplace and that the primary role of the state is to comission services and maintain contract law.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:57 am

Hermit wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:07 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:05 am
This is all conjecture and only page 1. No definitions. What liberalism? The right wing version or the left wing version. That is the trouble using the liberal flag; it varies so much. Even in the VVD has various definitions. Rutte's liberalism has nothing to do with Wiegel's (considered the father of the VVD) version which was far right. Dutch politics after the war and during the "Wederopbouw" (reconstruction) was in drastic flux. Lurching from far left to centre left. In the 60's it moved to centre right with the creation of the D66 party which took members from the VVD and PvdA. Today there is no talk of liberalism as the D66 and VVD has to form a minority coalition six months after the election.
It's 14 pages. I told you where you can get a hold of them. The bit after the ellipsis in my quote comes from page 14. Guess you didn't bother reading it. Else you might have wondered where the fuck I got that from.

I also gave you some pointers where neoliberalism came from. It was born in Europe, but spouting unsupported assertions seems to give you much pleasure, so just keep talking out of your arse.
I only could open page1. Why should I take your unsupported claims as pointers? Who spouts out of his arse? You have said bugger all and given a link to a single page. I dont take what you say at all not one single iota so stuff that up where the sun does shine.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:24 am

How does the sun shine up his arse? That's an impressive feat, Hermit!
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Hermit » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:33 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:57 am
Hermit wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:07 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:05 am
This is all conjecture and only page 1. No definitions. What liberalism? The right wing version or the left wing version. That is the trouble using the liberal flag; it varies so much. Even in the VVD has various definitions. Rutte's liberalism has nothing to do with Wiegel's (considered the father of the VVD) version which was far right. Dutch politics after the war and during the "Wederopbouw" (reconstruction) was in drastic flux. Lurching from far left to centre left. In the 60's it moved to centre right with the creation of the D66 party which took members from the VVD and PvdA. Today there is no talk of liberalism as the D66 and VVD has to form a minority coalition six months after the election.
It's 14 pages. I told you where you can get a hold of them. The bit after the ellipsis in my quote comes from page 14. Guess you didn't bother reading it. Else you might have wondered where the fuck I got that from.

I also gave you some pointers where neoliberalism came from. It was born in Europe, but spouting unsupported assertions seems to give you much pleasure, so just keep talking out of your arse.
I only could open page1. Why should I take your unsupported claims as pointers? Who spouts out of his arse? You have said bugger all and given a link to a single page. I dont take what you say at all not one single iota so stuff that up where the sun does shine.
I gave you the link from which you can download the entire article. Twice. :roll:

Bye for now. I'll take a break from people too fucking stupid to download a PDF.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Hermit » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:44 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:24 am
How does the sun shine up his arse? That's an impressive feat, Hermit!
I know it is, but Bjelke-Petersen did it first.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:13 pm

Hermit wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:33 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:57 am
Hermit wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:07 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:05 am
This is all conjecture and only page 1. No definitions. What liberalism? The right wing version or the left wing version. That is the trouble using the liberal flag; it varies so much. Even in the VVD has various definitions. Rutte's liberalism has nothing to do with Wiegel's (considered the father of the VVD) version which was far right. Dutch politics after the war and during the "Wederopbouw" (reconstruction) was in drastic flux. Lurching from far left to centre left. In the 60's it moved to centre right with the creation of the D66 party which took members from the VVD and PvdA. Today there is no talk of liberalism as the D66 and VVD has to form a minority coalition six months after the election.
It's 14 pages. I told you where you can get a hold of them. The bit after the ellipsis in my quote comes from page 14. Guess you didn't bother reading it. Else you might have wondered where the fuck I got that from.

I also gave you some pointers where neoliberalism came from. It was born in Europe, but spouting unsupported assertions seems to give you much pleasure, so just keep talking out of your arse.
I only could open page1. Why should I take your unsupported claims as pointers? Who spouts out of his arse? You have said bugger all and given a link to a single page. I dont take what you say at all not one single iota so stuff that up where the sun does shine.
I gave you the link from which you can download the entire article. Twice. :roll:


Bye for now. I'll take a break from people too fucking stupid to download a PDF.
I cant (only page 1) and wont download it. Why should I? I have to accept unsupported claims put up by you? You must be joking... You dont even know what Dutch liberalism is. :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:34 pm

:whisper: it's only unsupported when nothing's been offered to support the claim or statement, not when the person requesting support chooses to remain ignorant or can't be arsed to look at it. I mean, it could be poorly supported, or insufficiency supported -- I say 'could be' but this is The Librarian we're talking about -- but you won't know if that's a possibility until you've checked it out, will you?
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:53 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:34 pm
:whisper: it's only unsupported when nothing's been offered to support the claim or statement, not when the person requesting support chooses to remain ignorant or can't be arsed to look at it. I mean, it could be poorly supported, or insufficiency supported -- I say 'could be' but this is The Librarian we're talking about -- but you won't know if that's a possibility until you've checked it out, will you?
He is making unsupported claims. His link is to one page and that did not excite me. His knowledge of Dutch politics is null. He just has no idea what Dutch liberalism is. Do I have to take him seriously; NO.
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Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:02 pm

Well the UK is progressing.

BMA drops opposition to assisted dying and adopts neutral stance
Doctors’ union votes to change official position​ after debate at annual representative meeting

The British Medical Association (BMA) has dropped its opposition to assisted dying and adopted a neutral stance on the issue.

​The doctors’ union, which represents about 150,000 medics, voted to change its official position​ following a debate by members at its annual representative meeting in London. It had opposed legalising assisted dying since 2006.

​Campaigners seeking a change in the law welcomed the “historic milestone” and said it could help pave the way towards a future change in the law​.​

Some 49% of the BMA’s representative body voted in favour of a motion for it to move to a position of neutrality on assisted dying, including physician assisted dying, with 48% against it and 3% abstaining.

The union​, ​one of Britain’s most influential medical bodies​,​ said that while the decision meant it would neither support nor oppose attempts to change the law, it would not be silent on the issue.

​The BMA also insist​ed doctors must have legally protected rights to conscientiously object to participating should there be a change in law in the UK.​

It passed a second motion calling for “robust conscience rights” to be included in any future legislation on assisted dying in the UK, meaning healthcare workers should be able to conscientiously object to participating in assisted dying.​
Why hang around wasting good money and care. You know your time is up.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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