The state of the UK

Post Reply
User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Svartalf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:05 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:03 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:24 am
The idea that any white person in the UK can claim Gaele, Gual, Dane, Angles, Celt or Saxon etc heritage in any meaningful way -- that we aren't a bastard nation, and always have been -- is ridiculous. And yet some people do. I find it interesting that nobody ever seems to claim Roman heritage in the same way.
I would agree with you but due to geographic anomalies There were many pockets of Vikings along the west Irish coast and the Gaels were no match for them. The ruling families came from Viking stock. When the Spanish Armada was forced to sail around the British Isles many ships crashed on the west coast of Ireland and even today the Spanish genes are clearly visible. People did not travel much and very few left their townland.
The Scots were invited by the English to come and take charge of Ireland but only really settled in what is now today Northern Island. The Scots came mostly from the west of Scotland and were non Catholic non Gaelic speakers. The Church of Ireland (protestant) is still strong in certain areas even as far south west as Kerry.
What do you mean anomalies? they founded Limerick and used it as a base to extend on nearby areas. And you seem to forget that those Norse stock ruling families integrated so well in the country that some writers called them 'more Irish than the Irish'.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Svartalf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:09 pm

Hermit wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:07 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:24 am
The idea that any white person in the UK can claim Gaele, Gual, Dane, Angles, Celt or Saxon etc heritage in any meaningful way -- that we aren't a bastard nation, and always have been -- is ridiculous. And yet some people do. I find it interesting that nobody ever seems to claim Roman heritage in the same way.
Perhaps you might want to take cognisance of what I did claim. It was that the Irish and the Scottish populations are more closely related to each other than with any other population.
By original stock, maybe, but culturally, not necessarily that much.
I mean, the Scotsfolk that the English imported to manage Ireland for them might have been of Norse Gael stock, but culturally, they were English speaking protestants, and looked on the natives with precisely the same contempt, spite and disgust as their English lords.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Svartalf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:10 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:39 pm
No they not. No Gaels ever came into the Southern Uplands or the Low Lands. The Irish and Scottish Gaels are only related vaguely. The rest of the Scottish Population has no relationship with the Gaels. The two languages are from one root and a different one to the Welsh, Cornwall and Brittany. Irish Gaelic speakers have great difficulty understanding Scottish Gaelic and vice a versa. You obviously have never played shinty or hurling. You might as well throw in ice hockey or 'mali' (a cross between golf and hockey played here) as well in the comparison. I played both at school. You dont say Irish Whiskey or Scotch Whisky. Ireland you say the name when ordering ie "a Jamieson" and in Scotland it has very many names including a dram or a half as in "a pint and a half" (pint of beer and a whisky chaser).
Your cultural knowledge is very lacking. The Irish never use the 'Mac' in names only 'Mc'. The 'O' is not Gaelic as in O'Riley. It is an Irish modernism which ofcourse does not appear in Scotland. Looking for "spijkers in laag water" will always provide some vague connections. How about kilts? A Victorian invention including the Irish one which is never worn by the population in Ireland.
related vaguely? You DO know that Scottish Gaelic is an offshoot of Ulaidh dialect, don't you?

Yes, modern Gaidhlig is hard to make out by Gaeilge speakers, as would any daughter language cut off from its mother language for a millenium or more.
Canadian French is at the border or intercomprehension with French, or maybe already over, and the cutoff is less than 3 centuries.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 67667
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by JimC » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:37 pm

Scot, I hope you realise that we have a resident expert here in Svarty, not just on Ireland, but European history in general...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 31512
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:27 am

You're absolutely right Svarty, I've never heard Southern French law history experts talk. :)
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 67667
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by JimC » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:45 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:27 am
You're absolutely right Svarty, I've never heard Southern French law history experts talk. :)
What a sheltered life you've led, Brian... :nono:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 31512
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:52 am

:hehe:
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Svartalf » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:05 am

JimC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:37 pm
Scot, I hope you realise that we have a resident expert here in Svarty, not just on Ireland, but European history in general...
I'd better, I've studied enough to achieve that :mrgreen: :p
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Svartalf » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:06 am

JimC wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:45 am
Brian Peacock wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:27 am
You're absolutely right Svarty, I've never heard Southern French law history experts talk. :)
What a sheltered life you've led, Brian... :nono:
Yeah, every young man ought to spend a year or two in a French law university to round out their culture. :mrgreen:
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 16368
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:32 am

Of course Occitania was very popular when I was in France in the 80's. The language had a revival and I even went to a folk concert given in Occitanian. All very snobby like the members of the Gaelic Society in Edinburgh. Gaelic was never spoken in Edinburgh.
In Ireland in the 50's and 60's Irish was compulsory and to get your leaving cert you had to pass Irish. Today that has been dropped and outside the so called Gaelic speaking areas Irish is only spoken in a small snobistic clique who do everything to maintain what is a minority almost dead language. All modern terms are in English ie. computer and communication. The same is true in Wales. Welsh was never spoken in the Valleys but today every child is forced to learn it thanks to the Welsh Nationalists. We have the same problem with Frisian.
Language should be natural and not forced IMHO.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
BarnettNewman
extemporaneous
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: The state of the UK

Post by BarnettNewman » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:11 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Chumocracy.

UK sells arms to nearly 80% of countries under restrictions, says report
Exporting to countries under sanctions and embargos is ‘systematic failure to consider human rights records’

British ministers and officials have approved the sale of arms to nearly four-fifths of countries subject to arms embargos, trade sanctions or other restrictions over the past five years, according to analysis.

The UK has exported military hardware to 58 countries of the 73 listed as subject to restrictions by the Department for International Trade (DIT), including sniper rifles to Pakistan, assault rifles to Kenya and naval equipment to China.

The exports are legal but researchers with the group that compiled the report, Action on Armed Violence, said they represented “a systemic failure to consider the human rights record of states before exporting weapons to them”.

Countries covered by sanctions range from a handful where all arms sales are banned to a larger group covered by transit controls, where a special licence is required, for political, security or human rights reasons.

Five countries listed by the trade department as key export markets for British arms makers: Bahrain, Bangladesh, Colombia, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, also feature on the Foreign Office’s latest list of 30 “human rights priority countries”, although not all are subject to sanctions.
Fully in keeping with giving gas to Saddam Hussain to use on the Kurds then.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 14 guests