Spygate is unravelling

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Joe
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Joe » Thu May 21, 2020 4:21 am

Cunt wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:13 am
Joe wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:00 am
No Cunt, you obviously know nothing about the report, Mueller, Obama, Russia, or Trump and demonstrate your complete ignorance with every post.
As I suspected, you have no point. You just keep insisting that I must not have read it the special way you did.

And the lawmakers must have skimmed over it, too.

But what you imagine is in there, MUST be important.

That you choose to remain this clueless and still post is why I'm glad you're Canadian. You live in a golden age of information and peepee is what rules your thoughts. I'd feared it was only a US phenomenon.
What rules is that the investigation revealed nothing Trumps enemies could prosecute him with.

You can focus on the fact that he 'wasn't exonerated' but neither were you. Good thing it doesn't matter to anyone not trying to paint a scary story.

BTW, did you ever read that Jack London story?
I've just listened to the two so far. Forgot the other you mentioned.
Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:04 am
Cunt wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:30 am
Do you think there is some sort of a revalation there that countries meddle in the elections of other countries?
People abuse animals all the time, so what's the problem if I kick your dog?
Russians are meddling in your elections. You should probably impeach someone.
No Cunt, you didn't bother to read it at all in your special way, and I see you ran away from my point.

Oh well, you can lead a horse to water but you can make him drink. Good night Mr. Ed. :funny:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Joe » Thu May 21, 2020 4:24 am

JimC wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:17 am
Russians are meddling in Brian's erections?

:hairfire:
They're not using those little nesting dolls again, are they??? :lay:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu May 21, 2020 4:38 am

Cunt wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:13 am
...
Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:04 am
Cunt wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:30 am
Do you think there is some sort of a revalation there that countries meddle in the elections of other countries?
People abuse animals all the time, so what's the problem if I kick your dog?
Russians are meddling in your elections. You should probably impeach someone.
Wealthy Russians are directly funding the Conservative Party. A report was commissioned into the possible interference of Russia in the Brexit referendum campaign. It's publication was delayed two days after Boris Johnson became Prime Minister, whose leadership campaign was financed by wealthy donors including a number of high-profile Russian oligarchs. After the election win in December the Prime Minister ordered the report to remain unpublished on the grounds that it contained no new information. At Christmas the Prime Minister was treated to a two week Caribbean Christmas holiday paid for by a Russian businessman. At the beginning of February after Brexit Day the Prime Minister took another two-week holiday on the private country estate of another Russian businessman. The billionaire press stoically neglect to mention any of this and the Conservative Party have a comfortable majority in Parliament. The Conservative Party also receive substantial donations from Saudi interests and US corporations. It's been estimated that before the general election more than 80% of donations to the Conservative party came from foreign backers, swelling the coffers of the party to more than 30x the amount they were legally allowed to spend on a general election campaign. Part of the new government's legislative agenda is to amend election laws to remove the cap on election spending.

I mention this only in passing. What your comment about interference in elections and/or foreign material support in domestic politics implies misses the mark - which I presume was your intention. The point is, as I'm sure you're aware, that just because something is commonplace doesn't mean it should be normalised, or accepted, or argued for. If you disagree I'll pop round later and kick your dog to death - after all, people mistreat animals all the time, so what's the problem?
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Thu May 21, 2020 4:42 am

There is the infamous list of those who requested unmasking of US persons in NSA intelligence reports during a particular period. Most of those on the list are irrelevant to the supposed scandal, since their requests were made before the Flynn phone call with Kislyak, the Russian ambassador (remember, Kislyak would soon leave his position, and there are credible allegations that he himself is a Russian intelligence operative).

Now there is a report that the NSA was not responsible for the actual intelligence work; that was the FBI. The FBI apparently was reporting to the NSA, but also issued their own report on the calls with Kislyak (summary and transcript), in which Flynn's name was never withheld.

I expect the FBI report was classified though, so there is still the question of who leaked information to the press. Depends on how widely the FBI report was distributed, but it seems the range of possible suspects is much larger than had been previously thought.

Or, it's just more Fake News from the Lügenpresse/Enemies of the People.

'Flynn's name was never 'masked' on key intelligence document: report'
An FBI report on communications between former national security adviser Michael Flynn and then-Russian Ambassador to the U.S. Sergey Kislyak never redacted Flynn's name, despite GOP allegations that Flynn was "unmasked" by the Obama administration.

The Washington Post reported Wednesday that former U.S. officials with knowledge of the FBI's report on Flynn's communications with Kislyak, which eventually led to his ouster from the White House and later charges of lying to FBI agents, never masked Flynn's name because his name and position were relevant to understanding the report.

If true, the news would come as Republicans have sought for weeks to determine whether top officials in the Obama administration sought to reveal Flynn's identity and status as the subject of an investigation for political purposes. Flynn was ousted from the White House after news reports revealed he had lied to Vice President Pence about his conversations with Kislyak in 2017.

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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Hermit » Thu May 21, 2020 6:43 am

Cunt wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:43 pm
It's funny how partisan the interpretations are. You don't know what he said (or care) but are happy to swallow the Mueller Report, and maybe the Russian Collusion hoax, too.

That link tries to suggest the President needed 'exonerating' or some bullshit. In the US, they stand by 'innocent until proven guilty'.
The investigation was not tasked with finding anyone innocent or guilty for the simple reason that it is not a court of law. It was tasked with investigating who should - or should not - be indicted to face a court of law, which in turn is tasked to determine the innocence or guilt of indicted person. As a result of the investigation 34 people have been indicted to appear before a court of law where several of them entered a guilty plea.

The Special Counsel investigation was not a witch hunt set up to go after Trump. It was actually set up by one of Trump's appointees, United States Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who in turn appointed Robert Mueller, who previously headed the FBI from 2001 to 2013, a job he was nominated for by President George W. Bush, to head it. The whole process was firmly in Republican hands.

Trump was not initially subject to the investigation, and when he was drawn into it, it was not in relation to an alleged Russian collusion, but obstruction of justice. In that regard the Mueller Report concluded
...if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President' s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.
It is not a sign of partisanship to point out that the investigation explicitly declined to exonerate Trump from obstructing justice, but yes, in the absence of a court verdict it is partisan to opine that the President is guilty of obstruction of justice or colluding with a foreign power to win the Presidency. Then again, it is just as partisan to opine that he is not. Both are opinions that have not been tested in a court of law.


If you reply to this post at all I fully expect you to adopt your usual operational procedure: Ignore the issues I raised and divert your attention to me personally, typically by saying that I am blinded by bias or words to that effect. Might even get a mention of Jussie Smollett. You have not mentioned him for days.
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by pErvinalia » Thu May 21, 2020 7:41 am

I went jogging today...
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Hermit » Thu May 21, 2020 7:46 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:41 am
I went jogging today...
...and wish you good cardio.
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Cunt » Thu May 21, 2020 1:43 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:41 am
I went jogging today...
Cool. I did too. I will go again.

That Mueller report didn't exanerate you of poor running form though...run tall!
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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Joe » Thu May 21, 2020 4:26 pm

Cunt wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:13 am
What rules is that the investigation revealed nothing Trumps enemies could prosecute him with.

You can focus on the fact that he 'wasn't exonerated' but neither were you. Good thing it doesn't matter to anyone not trying to paint a scary story.
Ah, I missed this last night. My apologies, my eyes unfortunately grow weaker over the day.

Cunt, you are entirely and unequivocally wrong, and it's because you haven't read the Mueller Report. What rules is the Office of Legal Council finding that doesn't allow DOJ personnel to indict a sitting President. As Mueller explains (Vol II, Page 1)
First, a traditional prosecution or declination decision entails a binary determination to initiate or decline a prosecution, but we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has issued an opinion finding that “the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions” in violation of “the constitutional separation of powers.”1 Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations, see 28 U.S.C. § 515; 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC’s legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction. And apart from OLC’s constitutional view, we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President’s capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct.
As for "revealed nothing Trumps enemies could prosecute him with," pages 15 - 158 documents in depth 10 cases of obstruction with analyses of how they align with the obstruction of justice statute. I won't quote that here, but you would be wise to read those chapters before making such a sweeping and erroneous statement.

Far from being the "nothing burger" you call it, the Mueller Report still quite relevant. Even though Trump won't be charged for anything from it while in office, that immunity ends when he leaves. Again Mueller lays it out (Vol II, Page 1) .
Second, while the OLC opinion concludes that a sitting President may not be prosecuted, it recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President’s term is permissible.3 The OLC opinion also recognizes that a President does not have immunity after he leaves office.
This isn't the place to speculate about the election result, but picture Geritol Joe appointing James Comey to the Attorney General job and having an intern leave a copy of the Mueller Report on his desk his first day of work. :{D

Since we're in the Spygate/Obamagate circle jerk thread, let's let Mueller show you how fucking stupid Trump's attempts to investigate and prosecute Obama Administration officials are (Vol II, Page 179).
Under OLC’s opinion that a sitting President is entitled to immunity from indictment, only a successor Administration would be able to prosecute a former President. But that consideration does not suggest that a President would have any basis for fearing abusive investigations or prosecutions after leaving office. There are “obvious political checks” against initiating a baseless investigation or prosecution of a former President. See Administrator of General Services, 433 U.S. at 448 (considering political checks in separation-of-powers analysis). And the Attorney General holds “the power to conduct the criminal litigation of the United States Government,” United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. at 694 (citing 28 U.S.C. § 516), which provides a strong institutional safeguard against politicized investigations or prosecutions.
That's the trouble with breaking those unwritten political rules. They exist for a reason. If you break them, the other party might break them against you. Maybe Trump should read the report. :hehe:

But there's also hope for Trump in the report. What did the lawmakers miss? What did the media miss? What did you miss? Here's one!
III. LEGAL DEFENSES TO THE APPLICATION OF OBSTRUCTION-OF-JUSTICE STATUTES TO THE PRESIDENT
Yeah, the last chapter of the report (Vol II, page 159-180) goes though legal defenses available to Trump. Being a Trump fan, you might want to know about those.

The last is just a minor peeve. You keep going on about collusion. Mueller blew the collusion talk out of the water (Vol I, page 2)
In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of “collusion.” In so doing, the Office recognized that the word “collud[e]” was used in communications with the Acting Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation’s scope and that the term has frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.
You couldn't be bothered to read the first two pages of the report? And you want to be taken seriously? Frankly, every time I see you use the word collusion, I shake my head at your ignorance and have a hard time taking anything you say seriously.

I put this at the end to see if you actually read all this. I'll know you didn't if you keep bloviating on about collusion.

There's more, but that's all the time I'm gonna spend holding your hand. :coffee:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: Spygate is unravelling

Post by Cunt » Thu May 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Joe wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:26 pm
There's more, but that's all the time I'm gonna spend holding your hand. :coffee:
I get it. Mostly, there is stuff suggesting that he may be guilty of obstructing an investigation.

To me, whether that investigation was legitimate or not could affect whether obstruction was worth notice.

The Mueller report is in the right hands, so that any crimes in it can be attended to. Unless the Dems motivated to use it are incompetent, of course. Then it would be a bunch of theatre, a drunk, shiny lady fat-shaming, and Adam Schiff's eyes getting wider and wider.
Last edited by Brian Peacock on Thu May 21, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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