The Coronavirus Thread

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Brian Peacock
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:28 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:35 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:29 am
Do you know how you misunderstood the deaths to population ratio I posted yesterday Scott - the ones you said cast the ML in a less favourable light than the UK?

* * *

In other news, analysis of Eurostat figures show that England has suffered the highest level of excess deaths (deaths above the five-year average) from March to June than any other EU nation - over twice the 5 year avg. Scotland had the third highest after Spain and before Belgium and Wales. The UK is the sick man of Europe.
That is accepting that all data is correct.
No it isn't. It's accepting that we have the data we have at the moment. What do you mean by 'correct' exactly - is it that we can, should, or must expect some kind of 'perfect data' which can be collated and analysed without applying a reasonable range of error? If so they you misunderstand the nature of the problem. But then again, you haven't figured out why you were wrong to make the assumptions you did about the ratio of deaths to population size I pointed out earlier. Accepting and quantifying error is important in statistics. Put simply, if we can say that the data is likely to be inaccurate by ±10% -- because of factors X, Y, & Z -- then that also means it's likely to be accurate around 90% of the time, which is acceptable for demonstrating drift, pattern, and trend in the information we have at the time. You seem to be suggesting that we should wait for some later time when we have better information before making decisions about what could save people's lives today. I don't think you'd apply that argument to road safety measures but you're keen to apply it to public health measures during a specific and particular crisis - why?

If the data is incorrect, as you suggest, how incorrect is it?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:29 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:18 pm
I'm waiting for the penny to drop. Will it?
Not so far.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:01 am

After a peak at over 700 new case in one day a couple of days ago, we're down to 397 today. Hope we've passed the peak...
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:16 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:29 pm
Not so far.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by rainbow » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:06 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:30 pm
rainbow wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am
NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am
What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.
There are not. A few old SARS studies but only clinical. You like covering up your face and see others doing the same? Buy a hoody and big dark glasses and go the whole hog. I dont to. I want to see smiling faces. Maybe that is another reason for making them compulsory people in some countries have not got anything to be happy about :biggrin:
...so no link to where the Dutch government stated that masks don't work.

We'll just shrug and put it down as a lie, shall we?
I gave you the link. It is in de Volkskrant.
...like saying it's in the Bible :fp:

Point to the EXACT QUOTE.

If you can't, you were lying.

That simple.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:12 am

rainbow wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:06 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:30 pm
rainbow wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am
NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am
What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.
There are not. A few old SARS studies but only clinical. You like covering up your face and see others doing the same? Buy a hoody and big dark glasses and go the whole hog. I dont to. I want to see smiling faces. Maybe that is another reason for making them compulsory people in some countries have not got anything to be happy about :biggrin:
...so no link to where the Dutch government stated that masks don't work.

We'll just shrug and put it down as a lie, shall we?
I gave you the link. It is in de Volkskrant.
...like saying it's in the Bible :fp:

Point to the EXACT QUOTE.

If you can't, you were lying.

That simple.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Look I gave you the link and you claimed you could read Dutch so bloody well read it.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:16 am

"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by rainbow » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:23 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:12 am

Look I gave you the link and you claimed you could read Dutch so bloody well read it.
I read the main articles in the paper and none of them confirmed your claim.

...so you were lying.

The Dutch Government didn't say that masks were completely ineffective.

Why didn't you just own up in the beginning and save yourself the embarrassment?
:grr: You thought no-one here can read Dutch, but got caught out. :grr:
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by rainbow » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:32 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:16 am
Did you miss this post?
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 2#p1873412
There is a huge difference between your statement:
The Dutch government said today that masks have no effect
And
Volgens het rijksinstituut ontbreekt eenduidig wetenschappelijk bewijs dat het dragen van een mondkapje zinvol is.
The fact that there is no clear scientific evidence that they are effective doesn't equate to them being completely ineffective. :fp:

...so I'm still waiting for the quote where they say this, or you're lying.

:{D Do I make myself perfectly clear? :{D
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Hermit » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:40 am

rainbow wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:32 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:16 am
Did you miss this post?
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 2#p1873412
There is a huge difference between your statement:
The Dutch government said today that masks have no effect
And
Volgens het rijksinstituut ontbreekt eenduidig wetenschappelijk bewijs dat het dragen van een mondkapje zinvol is.
The fact that there is no clear scientific evidence that they are effective doesn't equate to them being completely ineffective. :fp:

...so I'm still waiting for the quote where they say this, or you're lying.

:{D Do I make myself perfectly clear? :{D
You can't trust the numbers because politicians always lie, but when a politician says: "According to the national institute, there is no clear scientific evidence that wearing a mouth mask is useful" you can take their word for it.

Scot's selective trust in politicians' is curious. I'd be more confident in the truth of the minister's assertion if she linked to the document where the institute proclaimed that "there is no clear scientific evidence that wearing a mouth mask is useful". Until Scot quotes it and provides a link to it where it does say so, I do not think it has.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:24 pm

rainbow wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:32 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:16 am
Did you miss this post?
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 2#p1873412
There is a huge difference between your statement:
The Dutch government said today that masks have no effect
And
Volgens het rijksinstituut ontbreekt eenduidig wetenschappelijk bewijs dat het dragen van een mondkapje zinvol is.
The fact that there is no clear scientific evidence that they are effective doesn't equate to them being completely ineffective. :fp:

...so I'm still waiting for the quote where they say this, or you're lying.

:{D Do I make myself perfectly clear? :{D
You do know what the word 'zinvol' means? Man talk about spijkers op laag water zoeken. If they are ineffective what does that equate to? They dont work.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:58 am

Victoria went back to high infection numbers (671 in a day). We are moving to state 4 restrictions for 6 weeks, which, in addition to compulsory mask wearing, include:
* an 8PM to 5AM curfew
* all students learning from home
* all movement restricted to 5 km from home
* only one hour of exercise per day, close to home
* only one person from a household to go shopping, within 5 km
* many shops other than supermarkets and take-away food outlets closed
Bron and I will cope...
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:06 am

I meant to say that our "state of emergency" has been replaced by a "state of disaster" which apparently gives even broader powers to the state government. Black helicopters will be next... :tea:
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:22 am

It's all about control, Jim. Blah blah blah..
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:47 am

In this situation, being a happy little sheeple serves the greater good...
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