The Coronavirus Thread

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by rainbow » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:07 am

NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:59 am
Numbers in Germany rising and rising. Nearly 900 new cases yesterday. Most concerning fact: It's not individual huge outbreaks, but it's all over the place.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:15 am

You just dont to accept that these numbers are insignificant. We dont have a universal definition of anything involved with this pandemic. You accept without question data spewed out by corrupt countries including your own where political weight of data is more important. Do you accept wearing masks is a 'just in case' measure. You are just putting all measures in one basket without any scientific evidence. Of course hand washing is primary action in prevention but that always the case for me personally. Wearing a mask is not. The RIVM here says wearing a mask has no influence on the spread of the virus but does have a behavioural influence on the wearer. Therefore this dehumanising measure has to be imposed on everyone even though there is no proof that it works and only it makes the wearers more conscious of the situation? That is pure madness. Once again look at the figures and not the cumulative ones. There has been more road deaths world wide. What level would be acceptable?
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:20 am

Germany has had 3,000 traffic deaths in all of 2019, already nearly 10,000 Covid deaths in 2020 and that is with the lock down measures. That number would be terrifyingly higher without the measures.

It's absolute nonsense to say that masks don't work. Doctors and dentists have been wearing them for a century to protect their patients. There are study that show they reduce droplets and aerosol. And they aren't dehumanizing in any way.

Guess, the Dutch don't like masks for the same reasons they don't like bike helmets...

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:24 am

NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:56 am
Wearing masks to protect others is not dehumanizing in any way. As long as I can remember, when going to the dentist, the dentist and their assistants have always been wearing face masks. I never felt that would dehumanize them. Also, you only have to wear the mask when coming in close contact with other people (public transfer, shopping, crowded narrow streets). You can go to a park and if there is enough space, you won't have to wear a mask and you will see the faces of other people.

The comparison between masks and burkhas is totally off because:
1. The need to wear masks is limited to a very limited set of circumstances
2. The reasoning for wearing masks is a matter of safety and not of misogyny
In a medical situation is different but in public? Masks have little influence on the spread. They give a false sense of security. They are very dehumanising.
Wearing a mask is the same as veil; both are unnecessary and pointless. There is no safety involved. It is all about paranoia.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:31 am

NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:20 am
Germany has had 3,000 traffic deaths in all of 2019, already nearly 10,000 Covid deaths in 2020 and that is with the lock down measures. That number would be terrifyingly higher without the measures.

It's absolute nonsense to say that masks don't work. Doctors and dentists have been wearing them for a century to protect their patients. There are study that show they reduce droplets and aerosol. And they aren't dehumanizing in any way.

Guess, the Dutch don't like masks for the same reasons they don't like bike helmets...
I am talking world wide figures. You are mixing up medical and non medical use here and quality. A non-medical mask can be an old rag as there is no official definition of what a mask should be.

The comparison with helmets is a valid one strangely enough. Why dont we need helmets because other measures are in place and the same is true of masks.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am

What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am

NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am
What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.
There are not. A few old SARS studies but only clinical. You like covering up your face and see others doing the same? Buy a hoody and big dark glasses and go the whole hog. I dont to. I want to see smiling faces. Maybe that is another reason for making them compulsory people in some countries have not got anything to be happy about :biggrin:
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by rainbow » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am
NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am
What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.
There are not. A few old SARS studies but only clinical. You like covering up your face and see others doing the same? Buy a hoody and big dark glasses and go the whole hog. I dont to. I want to see smiling faces. Maybe that is another reason for making them compulsory people in some countries have not got anything to be happy about :biggrin:
...so no link to where the Dutch government stated that masks don't work.

We'll just shrug and put it down as a lie, shall we?
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:29 am

Do you know how you misunderstood the deaths to population ratio I posted yesterday Scott - the ones you said cast the ML in a less favourable light than the UK?

* * *

In other news, analysis of Eurostat figures show that England has suffered the highest level of excess deaths (deaths above the five-year average) from March to June than any other EU nation - over twice the 5 year avg. Scotland had the third highest after Spain and before Belgium and Wales. The UK is the sick man of Europe.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:58 am

Data? Pish!
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:55 am

Data is unreliable
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:30 pm

rainbow wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am
NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am
What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.
There are not. A few old SARS studies but only clinical. You like covering up your face and see others doing the same? Buy a hoody and big dark glasses and go the whole hog. I dont to. I want to see smiling faces. Maybe that is another reason for making them compulsory people in some countries have not got anything to be happy about :biggrin:
...so no link to where the Dutch government stated that masks don't work.

We'll just shrug and put it down as a lie, shall we?
I gave you the link. It is in de Volkskrant.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:35 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:29 am
Do you know how you misunderstood the deaths to population ratio I posted yesterday Scott - the ones you said cast the ML in a less favourable light than the UK?

* * *

In other news, analysis of Eurostat figures show that England has suffered the highest level of excess deaths (deaths above the five-year average) from March to June than any other EU nation - over twice the 5 year avg. Scotland had the third highest after Spain and before Belgium and Wales. The UK is the sick man of Europe.
That is accepting that all data is correct.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:42 pm

rainbow wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am
NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am
What is dehumanising about wearing a mask? Nothing. It's shown to work. There's scientific studies.
There are not. A few old SARS studies but only clinical. You like covering up your face and see others doing the same? Buy a hoody and big dark glasses and go the whole hog. I dont to. I want to see smiling faces. Maybe that is another reason for making them compulsory people in some countries have not got anything to be happy about :biggrin:
...so no link to where the Dutch government stated that masks don't work.

We'll just shrug and put it down as a lie, shall we?
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Kabinet gaat mondkapje in openbare ruimte niet verplichten
Er komt geen landelijke mondkapjesplicht in de openbare ruimte. Het kabinet wil hier (voorlopig) niet aan, zo stellen Haagse ingewijden. Woensdag, als ook de 25 veiligheidsregio’s elkaar treffen, licht het kabinet dit besluit toe.

Het Outbreak Management Team (OMT) kwam dinsdag bijeen voor advies over het effect van mondkapjes. De Tweede Kamer had hierop aangedrongen vanwege het oplopende aantal coronabesmettingen in Nederland. Het kabinet krijgt het OMT-­advies woensdagochtend eerst te lezen, waarna het ’s middags in Utrecht wordt besproken met de 25 Nederlandse veiligheidsregio’s.

Zij zouden elkaar pas over een paar ­weken ontmoeten, maar door de actualiteit treffen ze elkaar veel eerder. Het kabinet vaardigt Tamara van Ark, sinds deze maand minister van Medische Zorg, af naar het overleg. Een dag later, donderdag, wordt duidelijk hoe het OMT denkt over het in quarantaine gaan na reizen naar Nederland vanuit een gebied met een oranje reisadvies.

Lossere moraal

De discussie over het gebruik van een mondkapje wordt de laatste tijd scherper gevoerd. Aan de ene kant staan onder meer het kabinet, dat (nog) geen heil ziet in verscherping van de maatregelen, en het RIVM. Volgens het rijksinstituut ontbreekt eenduidig wetenschappelijk bewijs dat het dragen van een mondkapje zinvol is. Wel stelt het inmiddels dat mondkapjes mensen voorzich­tiger maken en het dragen kan leiden tot beter naleven van de regels.
Tevreden liefje. :pr5:
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:29 pm

I thought dogs couldn't get the Rona, but one has died from it now

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/anim ... n-us-dies/

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