UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by rainbow » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:05 am

NineBerry wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:30 pm
rainbow wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:03 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:04 am
With PR this would not be required but it is the only possibility under the non-democratic FPTP UK system.
As this is effectively a referendum, all pro-EU supporters should hold their noses and vote Lib-Dem.
There is a brexit party. Can't they find someone to just create a NoBrexit party?
...effectively what the Lib-Dems will be standing as. They are hoping that everyone will forget Corporal Clegg and his wooden leg.

Of course both Labour and Tory candidates will mention this at every possible opportunity.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:26 pm

The system is against them. Totally gerrymandered that is the problem.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Alan B » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 pm

I agree, Scot. The start of discussions in the EU about tax avoidance over three years ago which culminated with ATAD saw the increase in momentum of the idea of the UK leaving the EU - later known as Brexit.
People have been using 'loopholes' in the law with the help of clever accountants to avoid paying tax for years. At one end of the scale I had a lady friend some years ago who thought it was a 'good idea' to transfer her pension to Guernsey to reduce the tax bill. At the other end we have the psychopathically greedy billionaires who do a similar thing but on a much grander scale. ATAD (now EU & UK law since the 1st Jan 2019) could put a stop to both these practices. An amendment, ATAD2, will become law on 1st Jan. 2020. This revision (I believe) will address the problem of companies transferring offices to countries with lower tax regimes in an attempt to avoid paying higher tax in their own country.

If we end up with a 'Brexit with a deal', will ATAD & ATAD2 still be part of that 'deal' and remain part of UK law? Somehow I think not.

I suspect that there is a sprinkling of members of all political persuasions who may indulge in these 'tax loopholes'. Regardless of the amount involved, it is still 'Stealing from the Public Purse'.

If we stay in the EU, these rich bastards (mostly contributors to the Tories and ERG) could lose billions.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Alan B wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 pm
I agree, Scot. The start of discussions in the EU about tax avoidance over three years ago which culminated with ATAD saw the increase in momentum of the idea of the UK leaving the EU - later known as Brexit.
People have been using 'loopholes' in the law with the help of clever accountants to avoid paying tax for years. At one end of the scale I had a lady friend some years ago who thought it was a 'good idea' to transfer her pension to Guernsey to reduce the tax bill. At the other end we have the psychopathically greedy billionaires who do a similar thing but on a much grander scale. ATAD (now EU & UK law since the 1st Jan 2019) could put a stop to both these practices. An amendment, ATAD2, will become law on 1st Jan. 2020. This revision (I believe) will address the problem of companies transferring offices to countries with lower tax regimes in an attempt to avoid paying higher tax in their own country.

If we end up with a 'Brexit with a deal', will ATAD & ATAD2 still be part of that 'deal' and remain part of UK law? Somehow I think not.

I suspect that there is a sprinkling of members of all political persuasions who may indulge in these 'tax loopholes'. Regardless of the amount involved, it is still 'Stealing from the Public Purse'.

If we stay in the EU, these rich bastards (mostly contributors to the Tories and ERG) could lose billions.
Alan you are of course totally right. Some here have problems with this concept. They love getting the wool pulled over their eyes. This is what it is all about. I also believe that Johnson wants to move the UK even closer to the USA. It may not be the 51st state right away but it will make it impossible for the UK to ever rejoin the EU.
This will be a phoney GE.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:59 pm

Who here has a problem with that concept Scot? The monied classes (formerly the landed classes, now corporate entities, financiers, and a stateless coterie of transient oligarchs and billionaires) have always resented having to pay taxes, just like they've always resented paying their workers enough to live on, or abiding by regulations usually brought in as a response to dangerous practices, and/or to wedge some element of accountability into the system, and/or to out-and-out curb abuse and exploitation.

The EU tax reforms may have been the push the Tory Eurosceptics need to get rise up from their troughs onto their hind quarters and start yapping, but that hardly applies to the disenfranchised voters of the economically stagnant areas of the UK who voted leave. For those predominantly working-class Leavers tax isn't a major concern but employment, housing, public services and costs are, along with the fact that Capitalism has not just failed to improve their situation but that it's systematically thrown them under the but and made their lives measurably worse.

Farage and friends tapped that discontent and built a platform off years of stories about immigrants and foreigners somehow simultaneously getting all the jobs and all the benefits, jumping the housing queue, the school placement, or the hospital waiting list, of being a drain on shrinking public resources during a supposedly necessary period of austerity, and about how the EU had made all this happen rather than the policies of the governments we'd elected ourselves. Brexit offered these people a promise of change and renewal and a way to send a massive 'fuck you' message to Cameron and his ilk and to a middle-class opposition who said they wanted things to Remain as they were.

It's too simple to say that tax caused Brexit or that Brexit is about tax. Brexit is a symptom of liberal economics' failure as it tends towards ever-freer laissez-faire economic and social structures globally, and we're seeing the same kinds of dramas being played out across the Western world..
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:58 am

Brexit was not even about money. It was a hatchet job by the world's 1% to destroy the EU. Since its conception it has been a thorn in the eye for the 1%. American and British speculators used European countries and their currencies as a "spielbal" to make money by speculation. Only when the Euro emerged did they realise this was serious. When the populist movement appeared in Europe with anti-EU stance they thought it was time to strike. For the moneyed people the introduction of new tax laws on offshore accounts was trigger enough to go along with the plan.
Brexit would never had happened if those tax laws were not put forward. Such changes were known years ahead by Cameron and all other EU leaders such is the way Brussel works. Cameron's cynical referendum allowed the moneyed people to gain power. He never helped the Remain's cause. Remain could never win. The state of immigration due mainly to American aggression made it the ideal time to use it as an excuse which was gladly exploited by the right wing. With illegal funding of their campaign and many other dirty tricks they managed to win a referendum by the smallest possible majority and an advisory referendum was turned into a mandatory result.
That is when the ball of wool started to unravel. Due to the democratic systems in the countries of the EU the populist movements failed to gain power and Nexit, Frexit, Gexit and every other exit failed to materialise.
Brexiteers then looked to the USA and found a friendly ear that would listen to them.
Tighter agreements will be made between the two countries, although the status of 51st state will be one step too far, these agreements will make almost impossible for what is left of the UK to rejoin the EU.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:10 am

A good decision taken at the right time?

Fracking banned in UK as government makes major U-turn
Victory for green groups follows damning scientific study and criticism from spending watchdog

The government has banned fracking with immediate effect in a watershed moment for environmentalists and community activists.

Ministers also warned shale gas companies it would not support future fracking projects, in a crushing blow to companies that had been hoping to capitalise on one of the new frontiers of growth in the fossil fuel industry.

The decision draws a line under years of bitter opposition to the controversial extraction process in a major victory for green groups and local communities.

The decision was taken after a new scientific study warned it was not possible to rule out “unacceptable” consequences for those living near fracking site
Nice green credentials for the government?
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Alan B » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:58 am

'Banned', Scot? On the BBC this morning a 'spokesperson' said it was a moratorium and in the Mail Angela Leadsom says it's 'temporary'...

This 'Government Ban' seems like a political blurb ahead of the election.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Alan B » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:12 pm

Guardian
Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election
The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools.
Lawyers and accountants for the UK’s richest families said they had been deluged with calls from millionaire and billionaire clients asking for help and advice on moving countries, shifting their fortunes offshore and making early gifts to their children to avoid the Labour leader’s threat to tax all inheritances above £125,000.
The advisers said a Corbyn-led government was viewed as a far greater threat to the wealth and quality of life of the richest 1% than a hard Brexit.Geoffrey Todd, a partner at the law firm Boodle Hatfield, said many of his clients had already put plans in place to transfer their wealth out of the country within minutes if Corbyn is elected.
“Lots of high-net worth individuals are worried about having to pay much higher taxes on their wealth and have already prepared for the possibility of a Corbyn government,” he said. “Transfers of wealth are already arranged – in many cases, all that is missing is a signature on the contract.
“There will be plenty of people on the phone to their lawyers in the early hours of 13 December if Labour wins. Movements of capital to new owners and different locations are already prepared, and they are just awaiting final approval.”
Dominic Samuelson, the chief executive of Campden Wealth, which advises more than 3,500 rich families, said: “From the ultra-high net worth perspective, a Labour government under Corbyn is a much greater threat to them and their businesses and their wealth than Brexit.”
On Thursday, Corbyn singled out five members of “the elite” that a Labour government would go after in order to rebalance the country.
He claimed Mike Ashley, the billionaire owner of Sports Direct and Newcastle United, was a “bad boss” who exploited his workers through zero-hours contracts. Ashley hit back, telling the Financial Times: “Corbyn’s not only a liar but clueless.”
The Labour leader also named the “greedy banker” Crispin Odey, the hedge fund manager who made £220m betting against the pound in the run-up to the EU referendum. Odey responded by telling the Daily Telegraph: “Luckily they [Labour] can’t even run a campaign, let alone the country.”
There's more...

So, these rich bastards are going to withdraw their wealth from the country thus perhaps causing damage to the country because they will have to pay more tax.
Unfortunately, I don't think ATAD2 covers Switzerland. :dunno:
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:49 pm

Of course it is not about money...

Who is kidding who?
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:51 pm

Alan B wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:58 am
'Banned', Scot? On the BBC this morning a 'spokesperson' said it was a moratorium and in the Mail Angela Leadsom says it's 'temporary'...

This 'Government Ban' seems like a political blurb ahead of the election.
Yep you are right. A moratorium till after the elections.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by JimC » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:00 pm

This will be another case of "yeah, the Tories are on the nose, but I can't vote for Corbyn..."
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:33 am

Alan B wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:12 pm
Guardian
Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election
Good. If they hate paying taxes they can go and live in South Sudan. But they always say this: we need billionaires to make the economy nice.

There are 105 billionaires in the UK. You know how much a billion is, right? If you counted one number every second counting to 1 million would take you 12 days. Counting to 1 billion would take you 32 years and 9 months.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by rainbow » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:41 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:10 am

The decision was taken after a new scientific study warned it was not possible to rule out “unacceptable” consequences for those living near fracking site
It is not possible to rule out “unacceptable” consequences for those living near wind and solar farms.
:smug: Meaningless crap to get the dim-witted to vote a particular way.

The only way to get out of the Brexit mess is to vote Lib-Dem.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019

Post by rainbow » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:43 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:33 am
Alan B wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:12 pm
Guardian
Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election
Good. If they hate paying taxes they can go and live in South Sudan. But they always say this: we need billionaires to make the economy nice.

There are 105 billionaires in the UK. You know how much a billion is, right? If you counted one number every second counting to 1 million would take you 12 days. Counting to 1 billion would take you 32 years and 9 months.
Tell that to the Zimbabweans.
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