UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
- Scot Dutchy
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
Why the insults? It is not PR is it. It still only supports major parties or dont you understand how PR works?
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
It is, and I do.Scot Dutchy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:51 amIt is not PR is it. It still only supports major parties or dont you understand how PR works?
The Australian Senate is in fact occupied by 26 members of the Liberal party, 6 Liberal National party members, 2 National party members and 1 Country Liberal member. They are the current government coalition. Non-government seats are as follows: Labor (26), Greens (9),
Centre Alliance (2), One Nation (2), Lambie Network (1) and Independent (1).
In the House of Representatives the government consists of 44 Liberal party members, 23 Liberal National party members and 10 National party member. 68 Labor party members, 1 Greens party member and 1 Independent occupy the non-government seats. No candidate from the United Australia party, One Nation party, Katter's Australian party and centre Alliance Party. Since the United Australia party only attracted 3.43% of all primary votes, One Nation 3.08%, Katter's outfit 0.49% and the so called Centre Alliance 0.33%, it is not altogether unreasonable that they did not win any seats.
You'll undoubtedly have problems accepting that there is more than one form of proportional representation, but when a government fills 51% of the seats in the House of Representative on the basis of receiving 51% of the popular vote after distribution of preferences, this looks very much like an example of proportional representation to me, especially in comparison with the latest election results in the UK, where it took only 43.6% of the popular vote for the Tories to win 56.2% of the House of Commons.
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- Brian Peacock
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
As my grandma always used to say, "Proportional is as proportional does."
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
It is not PR as it is a preference system that always supports major parties. That is what you seem yo have trouble understanding. There is only one true PR system.
Ireland as the same problem with their Single Transfer Voting system. The winning MP gets the majority of the vote but most voters second choice is for a major party as there are seldom two minority parties taking part in the same constituency so the voters have little choice. In fact their votes are wasted.
Ireland as the same problem with their Single Transfer Voting system. The winning MP gets the majority of the vote but most voters second choice is for a major party as there are seldom two minority parties taking part in the same constituency so the voters have little choice. In fact their votes are wasted.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
Yair, OK, Scotty.
Um, before I turn my mind to interesting stuff, can you answer this, please? Where on earth can we find the only one true PR system? Asking for a friend. She swears that it's a genuine question.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
It is not only one country plenty have it. Preference systems are never true PR. Just think about it.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
We all know the answer to that one. It's so obvious that I can't believe you really had to ask.Hermit wrote:Yair, OK, Scotty.
Um, before I turn my mind to interesting stuff, can you answer this, please? Where on earth can we find the only one true PR system? Asking for a friend. She swears that it's a genuine question.
It's New Zealand.
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
I really can't be bothered occupying my time with your dogmatism, especially, since my original disagreement with you was not about proportional representation as such. In case you forgot what it was, here is a reminder: "Oh, if only people voted for the party that most closely reflects their interests." Too often they don't, and the Dutch voters are not an exception. Since the last election the Dutch coalition government, of which the largest member is the centre-right People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), has scheduled some changes to corporate tax rates. Surprise, surprise, they are scheduled to go down. The 2019 Dutch corporate tax rate is 19% of the taxable income up to and including €200,000, above which the rate is 25%. The lower rate will decrease to 16.5% in 2020. The rates will further decrease to 15% and 21.7% respectively in 2021. Where will the funds to make up for the budgetary shortfall come from? The Dutch government has not revealed that yet, but judging by precedents all over the world, the odds are London to a brick that the remedy will be funding cuts to social services. I also note that support for the equivalent of the Labour parties in other countries, the centre-left PvdA has plummeted from 24.8% in the 2012 elections to 5.7% in 2017.Scot Dutchy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:32 pmIt is not only one country plenty have it. Preference systems are never true PR. Just think about it.
All in all, not even in the Netherlands - and despite its PR voting system - do people necessarily vote for the party that most closely reflects their interests.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
Thanks for the derail. We are not talking about policies which seem to fascinate you but systems. You are purely speculating. Enough of your nonsense. You know nothing of Dutch politics. The fall of the PvdA is self inflicted but of course you know that. How many more parties are there on the centre left? You have not got a clue because you cant think further than a two/three party system. BTW were are a very rich nation. People pay the Dutch government to borrow money but that like your post is a big fat derail.
I am talking about democratic systems.
I am talking about democratic systems.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
Fascinating maps show huge divide between younger and older voters in general election
A series of fascinating maps show the stark political divide between younger and older voters at the recent general election.
Twitter account Election Maps UK compiled how different age groups, ranging from 18 to 24s to over 65s, voted in the election – and what the result would have been if only one age group had voted.
The December poll ended in a Boris Johnson’s Conservative Party winning a huge majority of 80 – the biggest the Tories have secured since Margaret Thatcher in the 1987 election...
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 23171.html
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
Just proves more why FPTP is a lousy system.
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
Actually, it identifies the political persuasion of the electorate by age.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: UK General Election, 12 Dec 2019
But it does not get them anywhere. They are lost votes which is the trick of FPTP. It is so bloody corrupt it makes a banana republic look respectable.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:55 pmActually, it identifies the political persuasion of the electorate by age.
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