Evil Amazon

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Tero
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Tero » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:14 am

The Government will take care of it!
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pErvinalia
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:35 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:22 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:36 am
Wishful thinking Jim. Try making the people happy first. It has to come from the people. Not being imposed on them. This includes better services which for many is the brick wall. Also it has to be sustainable. Developing allotments for one year will not help as it has to be a long term plan. Here a length of 5 to 10 years is considered minimum.
Philosophy is another problem. A Dutch group went to set up a sizeable project in New York. It only worked when the produce could be sold. The idea of a cooperative producing free food was totally alien.
We can't restructure rampant Capitalism out of existence by saying it's pointless to try. That's the story Capitalism wants us to read.
Tricksy capitalism..!
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by NineBerry » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:53 am

Most people live in rented apartments. Cost for heating is paid by the tenant, not the owner. Electrsicity is paid for by the tenant, not the owner. So, the owner doesn't really care how efficient the heating is unless they live in the same house. Only way to improve the situation is by having legal requirements on heating efficiency when new houses are built or existing houses / apartments are renovated.

Similar principle applies to most things. I cannot know how well animals are treated when I buy meat or eat in a restaurant. I want to have the state enforce minimum standards for that.

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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by NineBerry » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:56 am

Tero wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:14 am
The Government will take care of it!
I'd really prefer the government running hospitals, homeless shelters and so on. Government isn't supposed to bring its own moral positions into play when doing so. It will not ban abortions from its hospitals or require people to pray before having their free meals.

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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:24 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:53 am
Most people live in rented apartments. Cost for heating is paid by the tenant, not the owner. Electrsicity is paid for by the tenant, not the owner. So, the owner doesn't really care how efficient the heating is unless they live in the same house. Only way to improve the situation is by having legal requirements on heating efficiency when new houses are built or existing houses / apartments are renovated.

Similar principle applies to most things. I cannot know how well animals are treated when I buy meat or eat in a restaurant. I want to have the state enforce minimum standards for that.
This is changing here. Modern apartments are being rented inclusive service costs which now include power.
In my district the new generation of housing (both rented and for sale) do not have car parking facilities or the right to a residents parking permit. There is no room. While many may think this would be a bad selling point the first project (400) is sold and rented even though the foundations have just been laid. A total of over 1200 dwellings will be built here in my district alone.

These are two of the many towers coming here. This is around Central station 5 mins from where I live. All the buildings and tram tracks etc. already exist

Image

This is the project just sold and rented.
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by rainbow » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:40 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:24 pm
This is the project just sold and rented.
Middle of Den Haag. Ugly.
Dig, 'cos I got my own world to live through
And I ain't gonna copy you

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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:08 pm

Den don't go dere.
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by rainbow » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:16 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:08 pm
Den don't go dere.
Did alreddy bin.
Dig, 'cos I got my own world to live through
And I ain't gonna copy you

Jimi Hendrix

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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:44 pm

Ken Dodd's dad's dog's dead.


Just sayin' :tea:
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Tero
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Tero » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:40 pm

I have 6 pair men's crew socks in my Amazon basket. I also have 3 pair nicer socks coming from REI. Some wool in them. For November and later.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Tero » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:10 pm

With 20 min of research, got my shopping to 27 dollars, therefore free shipping. None of this stuff is in a hurry, but free shipping saves 7 dollars.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by JimC » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:53 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:22 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:36 am
Wishful thinking Jim. Try making the people happy first. It has to come from the people. Not being imposed on them. This includes better services which for many is the brick wall. Also it has to be sustainable. Developing allotments for one year will not help as it has to be a long term plan. Here a length of 5 to 10 years is considered minimum.
Philosophy is another problem. A Dutch group went to set up a sizeable project in New York. It only worked when the produce could be sold. The idea of a cooperative producing free food was totally alien.
We can't restructure rampant Capitalism out of existence by saying it's pointless to try. That's the story Capitalism wants us to read.
In fact, some form of free enterprise will and should continue to exist. What we need (and some countries already approach this, however imperfectly) is a state which squashes the "rampant" bit...
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:47 pm

Yep, and the Capitalism bit as well. :tea:
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by JimC » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:54 pm

I cannot see any way of getting rid of capitalism completely other than violent revolution.

And, by now, we know where that leads; a totalitarian state, with all its dangers, and without the innovation that free enterprise can provide.

I still think that some form of mixed economy, with strong state controls (particularly in terms of human welfare and environmental responsibility) is the only realistic possibility.
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Re: Evil Amazon

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:58 pm

what's wrong with legal and regulatory frameworks? We don't have to run straight for the rope and lamppost option - the incremental introduction of laws and regulations which oblige companies with a set of clear social obligations and environmental requirements? We are at the point we are because of exactly that kind of process - only one dramatically tipped in favour of Capital power - and all of it can be undone without the sky falling in. In fact, leaving things as they are is bringing the sky down on its own.

The problem here is that the current system has been touted as the only viable alternative by those for whom it works best, and consequently is has become so ingrained in our collective psyche that we have trouble imagining an alternative, and thus when people do put in the work and propose alternatives they're dismissed as unrealistic or dangerous simply because they don't conform to what the system wants or what we've been primed to expect. Remember when I posted...
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:22 am
We can't restructure rampant Capitalism out of existence by saying it's pointless to try. That's the story Capitalism wants us to read.
What I really should have said - or at least one way we can think about this - is that Capitalism isn't one kind of thing. When we're talking about Capitalism which version are we talking about? Are we talking about American Capitalism, or British? Or the more regulated version of the Germans? Or the highly regulated and socially responsible version of the Swedes? Or are we talking about a homogenised system which is sown through all of these versions and has all but finished drawing the threads together into a single mass?

Capitalisms are a state of mind, a way of looking at the world expressed through human-made political, economic and social structures designed by people who put a price on their own heads by believing that having more money than the next guy, and maximising that difference by any means fair or foul, somehow makes them a better kind of person. It's akin to a kind of sport really, but an extreme sport which magnifies risk along with emotional and rational dysfunction played out in rigged games that ultimately only ever produce losers.

If we need a revolution it is one of consciousness and conscience - not one of blood and soil. Without the former the latter is inevitable; without the former transforming our priorities and restructuring our economies responsibly will be impossible.

The end of Capitalisms does not inevitably lead to totalitarianism, as if there only is or has only ever been two alternatives to choose from - that's another story Capitalism wants us to read. In fact, totalitarianism is Capitalism's end game, and deep down we all know it, don't we?
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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