Extinction Rebellion

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Hermit » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:18 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:36 am
She's a tool of the Kochs and Rothchilds.
Undoubtedly aspiring to become one of the 1%ers. Which is why most of her detractors like to refer to her as an Aspie.
Hermit wrote:
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People who quote themselves are either neurotic arseholes or inveterate trolls or both.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:10 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
Did it again Brian; a big post that said nothing.
It expressed my views.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
There are major problems on this planet which should have priority. Environment and climate change is should not be number one. Child slavery, social injustice and human exploitation should far above it but that is not the agenda of the 1%. They are worried about their personal comfort.
The systems and structures which maintain and perpetuate child slavery, social injustice and human exploitation are the same one's that are perpetuating Earth systems breakdown. They're called things like capitalism, authoritarianism and autocracy etc; systems where those with power decide the conditions of life of those without for their own gain and literally at the expense of everybody else

I can understand that you might have certain priorities and consider some issue more important than others. We all do. What I can't understand is your using the items on your personal list to place conditions on others, and then calling them hypocrites when you think they're not meeting those conditions - not matching your priorities. What I was particularly annoyed about was you laying those kinds of conditions on Greta Thumburg, a single individual, a teenager, a child, and not only making her responsible for a system of child exploitation in the Congo which is wholly supported by the West, and when she is specifically challenging systems which perpetuate that kind of thing, but also sneering at her for supposedly having high standards or more noble beliefs than people like you. Does she really intimidate you so much you have to call her a hypocrite? You're basically publicly bullying a child for seeing things differently to you. You've really got to stop treating children and young adults the same way you say you were treated at that age. That kind of thing is a massive part of the problem here.

And finally, Greta is the public face of demands from many quarters for governmental action on climate change. It's the right-wing climate fatalist meme factory you took that image from that mischaracterises those demands as something like a specific demand from Greta to buy some sort of particular stuff, and you've played right into their hands by uncritically repeating their narrative on this board.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
Yeah the drummer of the 1% plays a big drum and you cant stop following him.
That is truly ludicrous on a Galaxian scale. If you think I'm pushing the agenda of 'the man' then i) you're making no effort to understand where I'm coming from, and ii) you really don't know the kind of lists I'm on. Get away with you. :roll:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
Simple home situation Brian; how many kids in the UK have to live in rented accommodation which is the term for B & B's. A family living in a one room slum receiving substandard education through no fault of their own.
Far, far, far too many. But that doesn't cede that particular issue more importance or significance that the medium- to long-term viability of the biosphere upon which all humans and life on Earth depends.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
1,300,000 children
That is just the start of the problem and the XR movement are worried about the reduction in fossil fuel. These people dont own cars. In fact they dont own anything except debts.
That's not 'the start of the problem' that just 'part of the problem'. By this you simply expose your basic lack of understanding of what XR is all about, but I guess there you've only gleaned what understanding you do have from what you've seen in the news. You should go to a couple of meetings and ask some awkward questions if you want to be better informed. There's no obligation to glue yourself to a road and I can guarantee you'll be warmly welcomed, and everyone will be more than happy to talk about the issues without getting hysterical: https://www.meetup.com/Extinction-Rebellion-NL/events/
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
While Johnstone is entertained by his rich chums in the Caribbean this kids face another horrendous year in their little lives. That is what people should be demonstrating about.
Nothing to disagree with there other than erecting a priority list and saying we have to check it off from the top down is not only impractical at this point, but actually counter-productive. I'd really like you to consider, and hopefully specifically respond to, what I'm going to say now before hand-waving it away. OK?

The system which sees:
  • the number of children in poverty in the UK rising,
    the number of homeless individuals and families rising,
    the numbers of people on benefits committing suicide rising,
    the number of people relying on foodbanks rising,
    the number of young adults in increasing debt rising,
    the number of households, employers, banks, and corporations in increasing debt rising,
    the number of people--particular young adults--suffering with mental illness rising,
    the levels of urban air pollution and the number dying as a result of poor urban air quality rising,
    the amount of C0₂ in the atmosphere and its rate of increase rising,
    the amount of plastic in the sea and the rate of oceanic acidification rising,
    the profits of landlords and the asset value of their property rising,
    the profit margins of big business against the tax they pay rising,
    the outstanding amounts of corporate taxes governments are increasing having trouble collecting rising,
    the stock market and the asset wealth of corporations rising,
    the profits and rate of sales of arms companies rising,
    the numbers in indentured servitude and slavery rising,
    the economic over-exploitation of land, resource and people,
    ... I could go on but it's starting to get boring isn't it ...,
    the pressure on and desperation of people and the numbers of them around the world turning to political strongmen who are promising to protect them from 'the elites' even as they are financed by and fulfilling the agendas of those very same elites rising,
    the numbers living in flawed and failing democracies, theocracies and autocracies rising,
... all of it is all part of the same system. We can call it Capitalism with a big 'C' if you like, or Globalisation with a big 'G'. Whatever its called we in the global North have devised it and allowed it to happen because we, the people who all this initially depended on, were told that it was making things better all round. Now pretty much everyone can see that this hasn't turned out to be the case - and indeed it probably never was the case.

The point is: picking items off even that truncated version of the 'list of pressing issues' and saying we have to do 'that' before we can begin to do 'this' is pointless. The whole system is caught in a feedback loop and needs to be revised. The climate and environmental crisis, the breakdown of the biosphere upon which we all ultimately depend, offers us (all of us, collectively) a morally unambiguous issue through which we can shift our focus and priorities away from the profit-at-all-cost, business-as-usual model and towards something more sustainable, fairer, inclusive, responsible and democratic.

In order to secure the viability of the biosphere for humanity we have to secure the viability and diversity of the biosphere for all life on Earth, and if the economic costs of doing that are considered too high (btw, estimated by the UN at a mere 3% of global GDP) under the current system, but specifically by those with a vested interest in controlling the distribution of resources for their own gain, then we really have to have a big think about a new kind of approach to what and how we value things - a new system. Throwing our hands up and saying it's all too difficult is not an option. Just as there are no democracies on a dead planet there's also no quarterly reports and shareholder dividends, no media empires, no glorious legacies, no scientific exploration, no art, no music, no beer, no love and no loved ones.

People our age might think that, with the grim reaper waiting at the end of the street and getting a bit closer every day, it's pointless to start something that we can't finish. I can understand that point of view. But if we choose to we can lend a little extra weight to the wheel even if we wont be there to push it all the way up and over the hill. What we shouldn't do is fallback on our own cynicism and fatalism, our dysphoria, and tell the young that they're wasting their time to even try, to tell them that they can't change the world for the better like our grandparents and parents did when they were young - fighting for noble things like freedom from oppression and exploitation, democracy, education, healthcare, an eight-hour day and a five day week, or the right to love someone regardless of their colour or gender. Our grandparents and parents did that for us with only hope and the will to make things better than they were. We can't deny the next generation that kind of hope, because hope is all they need to start changing the world.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Galaxian » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:50 am
Simple home situation Brian; how many kids in the UK have to live in rented accommodation which is the term for B & B's. A family living in a one room slum receiving substandard education through no fault of their own.
Here's a family living on a large acreage, but still receiving substandard education through no fault of their own:
https://kyabramvets.com.au/wp-content/u ... /sheep.jpg
Image :kool:
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by rainbow » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:27 pm

Galaxian wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 am
Image :kool:
Thank you for the pic of your family. I guess you are the intelligent-looking one on the left?

Your mother is a bit ewe, though.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:06 pm

I do not know. I'd shear her. :tea:
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Hermit » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:01 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:06 pm
I do not know. I'd shear her. :tea:
You're obviously not a Kiwi. They shear their sheep with nobody.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 pm
People who quote themselves are either neurotic arseholes or inveterate trolls or both.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by JimC » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:04 pm

Galaxian is trying to pull the wool over our eyes! :lay:

And, on a more serious note, your long post was excellent, Brian. Of course, where the trick lies is to what action(s) will best work to change that system, or at least push it in a better direction. All I can do, other than a few personal things, is to join with others to protest, by civil disobedience if necessary. Before long, I (and Bron) want to do the training session that XR provides to prepare us to be "arrestables"...
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:10 am

I'm going in to the city again on Friday morning for another stint of lone protesting on the Parliament House steps.

There has been some controversy over a planned "University Students against climate change" protest march through the city on Friday evening: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/ ... _melbourne

Basically, the police said they were very stretched by all they had to do in terms of the bushfires, and asked for the protest to be re-scheduled:
The event, organised by Uni Students for Climate Justice, is one of several planned across the country on Friday and is expected to shut down parts of the CBD from 6:00pm.

But Acting Assistant Commissioner Tim Hansen urged "fair-minded Victorians" to reconsider attending the climate demonstration, which about 12,000 people have said they would attend on Facebook.

He said police were still actively engaged in supporting their emergency services colleagues in bushfire zones, working in fire-ravaged communities and facilitating evacuations while dealing with day-to-day policing.

"We will meet those obligations, but this is a distraction for us," he said.

"We see frontline police returning from the fire ground, returning from the fire zone that are fatigued, that do need a break, and this is now another operation we need to resource."
As an aside, I'm not sure I would attend in any case. It is not an XR event, and when I went along on one of their previous events, it was clearly led by very hard-line, ideologically driven socialists, with most of the chanting involving "smash the state" etc... :roll:

However, even with some sympathy for the police (it is true that their manpower has been severely stretched), the right to public protest is important, and there are many Australians who now realise that the unprecedented bushfires have powerfully underlined the perils of climate change, and want the government to come clean...
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 am

The police numbers at protests are ridiculous. They could get by with about 1/4 or less of the usual amount. These aren't violent protests.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:40 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 am
The police numbers at protests are ridiculous. They could get by with about 1/4 or less of the usual amount. These aren't violent protests.
XR ones certainly aren't. Not quite so sure about some of the uni folk...
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:51 am

It only takes a couple of agent provocateurs to send things tits-uo, and the rozzers will always out-violence you. That's why XR are so keen on policing their own action, love-bombing the filth and de-escalation etc. It's important to highlight the connection between what going on on the land and what's going on in the politics though, and talking about the effects of each on real people's real lives. Making the student protests a media talking point is not necessarily a bad thing if the issues are also being carried along with the #OUTRAGE, even if the thing doesn't go ahead.

Oh, and Jim, I meant to say: Perhaps the lettering on your placard could do with being a bit thicker(?) :)
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:36 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:51 am
It only takes a couple of agent provocateurs to send things tits-uo, and the rozzers will always out-violence you. That's why XR are so keen on policing their own action, love-bombing the filth and de-escalation etc. It's important to highlight the connection between what going on on the land and what's going on in the politics though, and talking about the effects of each on real people's real lives. Making the student protests a media talking point is not necessarily a bad thing if the issues are also being carried along with the #OUTRAGE, even if the thing doesn't go ahead.

Oh, and Jim, I meant to say: Perhaps the lettering on your placard could do with being a bit thicker(?) :)
I'm currently making a second one, that I'll paint the words rather than stick on photocopies - the lettering will be thicker, and better for a demo, like when we have our Autumn Rebellion. The current one works well for a silent vigil type protest - people are quite close as they walk by...

I may end up making some more blank ones, if the people in my local XR group want one...
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:32 pm

Good thinking Ginman!
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:46 pm

BlackRock joins pressure group taking on biggest polluters

lackRock, the world’s largest investor, has joined an influential pressure group calling for the biggest polluters to reduce their emissions, after criticisms that it was undermining action addressing the climate crisis.

The US investment firm has signed up to Climate Action 100+, a group of investors managing assets worth more than $35tn (£27tn), that pressures fossil fuel producers and other companies responsible for two-thirds of annual global industrial emissions to show how they will reduce carbon dioxide pollution.

BlackRock, which manages assets worth $6.9tn including major oil producers such as BP, Shell and Exxon Mobil, has faced a mounting backlash for actions that activists said were preventing oil companies from being held to account. BlackRock has directly voted against multiple shareholder resolutions brought by Climate Action 100+. This included a resolution put to shareholders of BP that forced the British oil supermajor to describe how its strategy is consistent with the Paris climate accord.

BlackRock chief executive Larry Fink’s annual letter to investors, expected ahead of the World Economic Forum in Davos on 21 January, has previously called on companies to take more action on the climate crisis. BlackRock has faced protests from environmental campaigners, who have accused the company of hypocrisy for routinely voting against shareholder motions directing boards to take action on the climate crisis....

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -polluters
Turn up the heat.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:12 am

Protesters interrupt First Minister's Questions with climate demonstration

Climate Change protesters have twice disrupted First Minister Questions and attacked Nicola Sturgeon’s support for the fossil fuel industry.

It coincided with the Liberal Democrats criticising the Scottish Government’s continued support for the expansion of Heathrow airport and greater use of aviation. Extinction Rebellion Scotland said it had been behind both protests.

In the first demonstration, a couple tried unsuccessfully to unfurl an orange banner from a balcony in the public gallery, but the writing was upside down.

An elderly man shouted: “If the Scottish Government’s North Sea oil and gas plans go ahead as planned, and are replicated worldwide, when will our planet crash and burn?

“Will my grandchildren see that?”

The man and a younger woman were then removed by the police.

Twenty minutes later, another protest took place when a younger man stood up in a different section of the public gallery.

Referring to the global climate change conference being held in Scotland later this year, he shouted: “First Minister, my apologies for this second interruption, but Glasgow is hosting COP26 this November and there is no leadership from the Scottish Government.

“We are embarrassed to be represented by you. When will the love affair with the fossil fuel industry end?”...

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/181 ... nstration/
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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