Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:33 am

As the jet was nose diving, the Boeing 737 MAX pilots did not try to electronically pull the nose of the plane up before following Boeing's emergency procedures of disengaging power to the horizontal stabilizer on the rear of the aircraft, according to the sources.

One source told ABC News that they manually attempted to bring the nose of the plane back up by using the trim wheel. Soon after, the pilots restored power to the horizontal stabilizer.

With power restored, the MCAS was re-engaged, the sources said, and the pilots were unable to regain control and the plane crashed.
--best to wait for the report tomorrow
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by macdoc » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:02 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:38 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:06 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:00 pm
What, are you saying this jet can't glide Scot!?

You're making things up.
Glide? Without power they just fall as do all modern passenger planes. Planes glide into landing because of air upthrust. The Russians built a massive plane based on this principle.
No power; there is only one way down.
No, they don't just fall. They glide, some very far in fact.
Yeah look up Gimli Glider ....

That said any aircraft in a stall near to the ground will quickly spin into the ground without any recovery.
In this case tho, the plane effectively "flew" into the ground thanks to the auto-pilot over riding pilot input..... four times in one case the crew turned it off and it reactivated....

The deeper issue is that Boeing did not the submit the 737 Max as a new aircraft despite the dramatic CofG and power changes. They used the certification of the older design to get it to market quicker. That's going to be the big fallout from this.

plus the horrid documentation and training.

Sad for the families involved but will result in a much safer plane. Not few other manufacturers are secretly pleased with the opportunity to gain a few sales from the mess.

Has had a negative impact on flight scheduling. :coffee:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:07 am

Not blaming the pilots:

Boeing report: pilots followed guidance but could not control Ethiopian plane
First official report says pilots of plane that crashed last month followed procedure

It suggested that Boeing review the aircraft control system and aviation authorities confirm the problem had been solved before allowing that model of plane back into the air. It was grounded globally following the crash, which was the second deadly accident in six months involving the new model after a Lion Air crash in Indonesia in October that killed 189 people.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Tero » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:13 am

Railroads, airplanes and pipelines: regulate yourself!
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/70943184 ... f-regulate
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Tero » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:20 am

I had already listed the FDA elsewhere. However, those ate scientific data that are difficult to fudge. Rarely does a researcher hide data that test animals died, for example. Analytical data has noise and little bits that shows a real printout vs made up data.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:33 am

Even Boeing is finding problems. How did this pass any tests?

Boeing 737 MAX: Company reveals new software problem detected in jets which 'must be fixed before planes can fly'
Boeing has promised 'to own' the problem

Boeing has revealed its troubled 737 MAX jets are suffering from an additional software problem that regulators say must be fixed before the planes can be cleared to fly again.

As investigators in Ethiopia said a preliminary examination suggested the Boeing jet that crashed last month with the deaths of 157 passengers and crew was struck by excessive speed and was forced downwards by a wrongly-triggered automation system, new problems emerged for the airline back home in Seattle.

The Washington Post said a review by Boeing of the stall prevention system suspected of being behind the Ethiopian Airlines and a crash last year in Indonesia, had detected an “additional software problem”. It said the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had ordered the problem be addressed before the plane would be cleared for flying.

It said the company termed the problem “relatively minor” and was not related to the anti-stall system.

However, it is another headache for company, struggling to respond to the global grounding of the jet with which it intended to compete with rival, Airbus.
Of course it is a MINOR problem.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Svartalf » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:34 am

it was tested?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:38 am

Well I presume so.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Svartalf » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:43 am

And I am tot the point where I doubt it even was... IIRC, it's a new declension on the 737 brand, and maybe they thought it would work like previous versions did, and forewent testing it, which would explain the host of bad surprises from that particular model...
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:13 am

That was the sales pitch of Boeing; it is not a new plane when in fact it was and having control over they FAA they could sell it. Cash strapped airlines (who is not cash strapped or made to be) grabbed the idea especially the savings made on training.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Tero » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:59 am

I had never seen the word forewent spelled out before. If I did, I foregot it.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Svartalf » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:45 pm

well, that shows my mastery of English, because "foregoed" would simply not have done it.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am

Boeing to cut 737 Max aircraft production by nearly 20%
Only 42 aircraft to be made per month in bid to manage inventory after two fatal crashes
Who is buying?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:01 am

Remember this is how Boeing competes:

Bombardier wins fight against huge tariffs on aircraft imports
Defeat for Trump administration could save thousands of jobs at company’s Belfast operation
Honest competition is too much for them so the American government steps in.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:03 am

The Boeing scandal is an indictment of Trump’s corporate America
There is growing alarm in the US that Capitol Hill’s bonfire of the regulations has led to hundreds of deaths. It may be a turning point

It is not just Boeing, a once magnificent company, that is being condemned – it is the US’s wider economic, political and regulatory structures. What is not required is a short-term software fix on the faulty MCAS system that automatically adjusts the plane’s flight trajectory, along with an improved safety manual and training for pilots, which is Boeing’s response so far. What is needed is a root-and-branch overhaul of the intersection between capitalism and democracy in the US. The current set-up – and the accompanying libertarian, anti-state, anti-regulation philosophy – literally kills people.
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