Her majesty’s official opposition implode

[Rum]

I should hold back on the rant tone. Apologies to Psycho for blasting away like that. It is probably age, but I personally find the political certainties one is prone to in earlier life alarming at this distance. Who, for example, would coin the phrase ‘the fallacy of the middle ground’ except someone who didn’t want a middle ground? Who would take on the doctrine of permanent revolution except those with no real concern for the lives of individuals?

As to your point, the 7 Labour leavers of the OP refer to the current Labour Party as ‘Marxism in disguise’. Corbyn is for the re-nationalisation of large chunks of infrastructure sold off for private profit making by Thatcher and her successors. They see it as a long term project apparently. I’m certainly up for some of that, though many of my generation also recall the chaos of our labour relations when those resources were ‘owned by the people’.

[Hermit]

I personally find the political certainties one is prone to in earlier life alarming at this distance.

There's a certain irony in so far as the tone of your post was saturated with rather more certainty than Psychoserenity's. Also, I detected none of the Marxist interpretation of history in his that you seem to have rejected with the fervour of a born-again middle of the roader.

ETA: And if Blair's "Third Way" can be described as a middle ground anyone who supported it would be committing the the fallacy of the middle ground. Sorry, old man. I am pretty much your age, but I'm siding with him on this issue. Though, as I mentioned earlier, I am no all that familiar with your country's political details since Blair became PM, we had to endure a similar scenario under Paul fucking Keating between 1991 and 1996.

[pErvinalia]

I was a member of the workers revolutionary part in the early 70s. I’m embarrassed by that now. I still remember all the self justification, the certainty that we were right and everyone else was wrong, that a Marxist interpretation of history was the only valid one. That revolution was inevitable (and the casualties a necessary price to pay). Bah!

You may have changed your tune politically, but your tone of certainty has not diminished.

Speaking of Marxist interpretation of history, have Corby & co announced they will nationalise the means of production without compensation? Just asking because I'm not well read on the UK's Labour Party. I kind of lost interest when Tony Blair came up with the Third Way. Not much point leading the Labour Party to three election victories when that requires the implementation of neo-liberal policies and playing deputy dog to the US in the war against weapons of mass destruction.

Paul Keating was the architect of the Third Way. Blair and Clinton were following his lead.

[PsychoSerenity]

Blair was basically neoliberal. He consciously decided not to roll back many of Thatcher's policies and even extended a few.

When Miliband was leader he failed to oppose many of Cameron's austerity policies because he didn't want to be seen as too far to the left since the tabloids had branded him 'Red Ed' because he'd been elected over his Blairite brother by the support of the unions. It didn't win him any of the support with the public that was lost to Labour throughout the Blair years.

Corbyn is the first leader Labour have had in decades advocating genuinely left wing policies and it gave Labour millions more votes and half a million members.

But he's still advocating a mixed economy. The only things his manifesto suggests nationalising are natural monopolies and public services. The main other policies were free higher education, a national investment bank to help with regional and small business investment, and a minimum wage that is a living wage. None of this is radical, let alone far left.

To compare to more radical economic policies try the Greens; universal basic income, land value tax, maximum 10:1 company pay ratios. I wouldn't consider a party far left unless they were saying something like all business must be not-for-profit or cooperatives.

[PsychoSerenity]

Oh and Rum, your comment about having no concern about the lives of individuals? You do know that Tory austerity policies and benefit cuts are literally killing people, don't you? The UN have been investigating poverty as a crisis and human rights abuses against people with disabilities under our current government. It's not radical to be strongly opposed to that.

[pErvinalia]

Hear hear.

[Hermit]

Paul Keating was the architect of the Third Way. Blair and Clinton were following his lead.

Who in turn took the lead from the German Chancellor, Helmut "Schnauze" Schmidt (1974-82). Schmidt was to Chancellor Willy Brandt (1969-74) what Prime Minister Keating was to Gough Whitlam.

And while both Brandt and Whitlam were great social reformers, neither of them were socialist firebrands. In Australia that fire had been well and truly extinguished when Prime minister Ben Chifley, who planned to nationalise the private banks failed to get re-elected in 1949. Despite his intention to nationalise the banks, Chifley was no communist. In fact, fought them. He also sent the army in to break the coal miner's strike in order to prevent the CPA from using the strike to increase its influence.

I will never forgive Keating for initiating the sale of the then only remaining government owned bank, the Commonwealth Bank, and Qantas.

[Svartalf]

Chuka Umunna would make a great party leader. We really need a ‘moderate’ centre left party in this country that is for redistribution of wealth via higher taxes on the better off and with social justice at its core. The current Labour Party with its far left legacy, constant rumblings about anti semitism is simply not electable. The British are far too moderate...or maybe cautious.. to go for the current lot’s shenanigans.

man, at our ages, such optimism is admirable.

[Scot Dutchy]

Burn down FPTP and see what comes out of the ashes. You might be surprised when all the people finally get the vote.

[Clinton Huxley]

Another one has escaped from Planet Corbyn this morning. Interesting to see if the rumoured Tory MPs join today...

[JimC]

Another one has escaped from Planet Corbyn this morning. Interesting to see if the rumoured Tory MPs join today...

Strange bedfellows indeed...

(well, particularly given Tory MPs...)

[Scot Dutchy]

Sometimes strange bedfellows are needed.

[Clinton Huxley]

Never mind the corruption, cronyism, dogmatism, privilege, and staggering incompetence. The Tory and Labour parties are intellectually on their last legs. They're zombie parties, staggering on out of habit. Unfit for purpose.

And Corbyn is a tit.

[Clinton Huxley]

Derek Hatton's back in the fold. At least that'll distract from all the anti-Semitism, eh.

[Rum]

And now the Tories are jumping ship. Three join the new grouping as of this morning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47306022