Roger Stone Indictment

[Animavore]

It would be interesting to see how far Republicans will go in defending criminals and criminality. Like, for instance, if Trump shot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and it was plastered all over the news would they be asking why CNN where there? If they had been tipped off? Would they protest against how the security deal with Trump as they tackle him to the ground? Would they accuse the FBI of a witch hunt? And how would they work Hillary Clinton into the story?

[Sean Hayden]

To regular folk, it looks like the FBI was attempting to conduct a thorough investigation into Russian meddling in the election, and Stone purposely mislead them thereby hindering their attempts to get at the truth. Furthermore, when Stone thought his efforts to mislead the FBI might be undermined by another witness, he threatened that witness thereby further jeopardizing the FBI's efforts to get to the truth.


That's why he's in trouble.

[Sean Hayden]

I guess 42 might be upset because Stone could actually be in trouble for not giving up anything of value. Maybe he thinks, hey, it could be me next time working with the Russians to do something horribly shitty to my country, and they indict me for not giving up more than they already know!

[Cunt]

To regular folk, it looks like the FBI was attempting to conduct a thorough investigation into Russian meddling in the election, and Stone purposely mislead them thereby hindering their attempts to get at the truth. Furthermore, when Stone thought his efforts to mislead the FBI might be undermined by another witness, he threatened that witness thereby further jeopardizing the FBI's efforts to get to the truth.


That's why he's in trouble.

To me, it looks like a 'perp walk'. That is a problem itself, as I think it's a shitty political move by enforcement who are supposed to be objective, but it's an even bigger problem if he isn't an actual perpetrator of crime.

[Sean Hayden]

Okay, except he lied and threatened a witness. -jaysus

[Sean Hayden]

It's like talking to a wall.

The FBI is conducting an investigation. They believe you may know something that can help them. You may also play a part in the crime being investigated. When questioned by the FBI you lie. Furthermore when you realize another witness may not be willing to lie to corroborate your testimony, you threaten them.


"Perpwalk!" "Abuse of power!" "I thought they were supposed to be objective!"

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah, this is why you need a secret police who do things secretly - so secret in fact that even the people doing the investigating never know who they're inquiring about, and those being investigate never know they're under scrutiny, with secret trials in secret courts with secret standards of evidence and proof and secret sentences that the secretly convicted never even know they're serving. That's the only way to be objective imo.

[Cunt]

"Perpwalk!" "Abuse of power!" "I thought they were supposed to be objective!"

To be clear, I think a perpwalk is ALWAYS a dogshit idea. It sucks ass every time. Fuck perp-walks.

Part of the reason I say that is that I LOVE seeing the fuckers dragged away in handcuffs. The real shame, the awful lights, the normal clothes. It's all very appealing drama.

It's a BIG part of the reason I don't like perp-walks, actually. I do understand why you may like them, though.

[Brian Peacock]

Being a bit baity today aren't we - even for you? Where did Sean say he liked the 'perp-walk' eh?

[Sean Hayden]

You love'em and hate'em at the same time? --weird

Just so you know, I still haven't watched the guy being hauled off yet. I'm not interested. Kind of like you're not interested in addressing what's actually been said.

[Cunt]

You love'em and hate'em at the same time? --weird

Just so you know, I still haven't watched the guy being hauled off yet. I'm not interested. Kind of like you're not interested in addressing what's actually been said.

Yes, I love and hate em.

I haven't watched this one, but it's my feeling, not my thinking which brings me the joy.

I enjoyed the show 'COPS' was partly loving watching assholes getting cuffed, put in custody and dealt with.

I just enjoyed Hateful 8 the other day. That might be why the kind of entertainment exists.

That's me, flawed and honest about it.

As to what I think about them, I think they are a shit idea, used for shit reasons. If the accusations stick, and how this plays out, may change my mind about something, but so far, all this suggests is that this guy is perp-walked.

That doesn't tell me much about him. Just about the investigators and enforcement (and not much about THAT)

[Sean Hayden]

I hate COPS.

They have this segment on some radio station in Houston called something like "At the courthouse!" where they interview people coming and going at criminal courts. I hate it for the same reason I hate COPS. The people always tell the dumbass radio personality everything, and they always do so from a position of inferiority. They have no sense of self-worth or value, and it shows in everything they say. They are facing real consequences that will only further fuck up their lives and they are being treated like a circus freak sideshow and it pisses me off. I want them to tell the radio personality to go fuck themselves. You would never catch well-groomed assholes sharing willingly like a babe, and without self-respect, about their legal troubles with radio personalities for our amusement.


--//--


The indictment tells you what you need to know btw, if you're interested in getting over hating the perp-walk.

[Cunt]

I hate COPS.

They have this segment on some radio station in Houston called something like "At the courthouse!" where they interview people coming and going at criminal courts. I hate it for the same reason I hate COPS. The people always tell the dumbass radio personality everything, and they always do so from a position of inferiority. They have no sense of self-worth or value, and it shows in everything they say. They are facing real consequences that will only further fuck up their lives and they are being treated like a circus freak sideshow and it pisses me off. I want them to tell the radio personality to go fuck themselves. You would never catch well-groomed assholes sharing willingly like a babe, and without self-respect, about their legal troubles with radio personalities for our amusement.


--//--


The indictment tells you what you need to know btw, if you're interested in getting over hating the perp-walk.

The indictment accuses him of doing some shady things. I got that.

I think you should be a cop. Or maybe explain why you wouldn't. There is some deep disagreement between us here, and it might be worth figuring out what it is.

Or not, no biggie if it isn't something you want to go into. Probably not the place for it here, at least.

[Scot Dutchy]

Do trolls receive special training for these more complicated cases?

[Sean Hayden]

Do you mean the cases where all we have to do is state the facts as simply and clearly as possible and they've got nothing? I doubt it. So far it's been more of the usual.

1. Talk about Clinton --deflect-- (God I'd love to know how Clinton got one over on these guys, it's probably a great story.)
2. Get away from the implications of a plain reading of the facts in this case and focus on a general philosophical problem (eg focus on the problem of the potential to misinterpret testimony while ignoring the rather straightforward interpretation of testimony given in this case combined with the threatening of a witness.)
3. Misrepresent Stone's treatment as extraordinary despite expert testimony to the contrary as well as widespread knowledge of how the police have moved toward this type of apprehension in general.
4. Use the above to portray the investigation itself as extraordinary for reasons other than the rather simple fact that the charges leveled at Trump and co, if true, combined with the range of players and variety of conspiracy are extraordinary.

I'm sure I'm missing loads. Also, you don't have to be a troll to engage in this.