All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:02 pm

rainbow wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:58 am
Tero wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:35 pm
38E628CA-06D5-4FD8-B7F1-711AFAE5F5A3.jpeg
Obviously fake.
The person who wrote this has no idea of True Organic-oriented Vegan Socialism (TOOVS)

Real agenda:

1. Virtual hugging
2. Privilege knowledge session
3. Re-education of cis-members
4. Tofu and spliff break (optional)
5. Election of collective committee
6. Talk on alternatively-abled, queer emotional empowerment within white male dominated oppressive matrices.
7. Re-election of committee due to late arrival of the non-conventional sleeping community.
8. Spliff break (non-optional)
9. Anti-Capitalism sing-along.
10. Discussion on shoe wearing and animal oppression.
11. Close
:potd:
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Seabass » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:49 pm

People who know fascism know it's happening in this country. So many refuse to believe it, but all you have to do read the history. Read your Hannah Arendt. Read your William Shirer. We are not immune. No one is immune.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/17/styl ... rview.html
Recalling the bizarre incident, Mr. Baron Cohen said, “I remember my late father watching Trump on the campaign trail in 2016. I said, ‘What do you think of him?’ He said, ‘Two things. He’s extremely entertaining. Far more entertaining than Hillary. Two, he’s a fascist.’ My dad was born in 1932. He’d seen fascists on the streets, Mosley’s Blackshirts beating up Jews. And he knew what fascism was.”
"No, no, no, not God bless America. God damn America!" —Reverend Jeremiah Wright

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Seabass » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:53 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:02 pm
rainbow wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:58 am
Tero wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:35 pm
38E628CA-06D5-4FD8-B7F1-711AFAE5F5A3.jpeg
Obviously fake.
The person who wrote this has no idea of True Organic-oriented Vegan Socialism (TOOVS)

Real agenda:

1. Virtual hugging
2. Privilege knowledge session
3. Re-education of cis-members
4. Tofu and spliff break (optional)
5. Election of collective committee
6. Talk on alternatively-abled, queer emotional empowerment within white male dominated oppressive matrices.
7. Re-election of committee due to late arrival of the non-conventional sleeping community.
8. Spliff break (non-optional)
9. Anti-Capitalism sing-along.
10. Discussion on shoe wearing and animal oppression.
11. Close
:potd:
I think that one's good enough for post of the month. Not year, though. That one goes to the picture of Trump on the virus wrecking ball...
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by JimC » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:16 pm

Seabass wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:49 pm
People who know fascism know it's happening in this country. So many refuse to believe it, but all you have to do read the history. Read your Hannah Arendt. Read your William Shirer. We are not immune. No one is immune.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/17/styl ... rview.html
Recalling the bizarre incident, Mr. Baron Cohen said, “I remember my late father watching Trump on the campaign trail in 2016. I said, ‘What do you think of him?’ He said, ‘Two things. He’s extremely entertaining. Far more entertaining than Hillary. Two, he’s a fascist.’ My dad was born in 1932. He’d seen fascists on the streets, Mosley’s Blackshirts beating up Jews. And he knew what fascism was.”
It may be reasonable to call Trump and his Republican coterie fascists. It certainly applies to the gamut of racist, right-wing extremist groups that he gives tacit support to. But where you were OTT was applying that label to all Trump voters, whatever their circumstances and motivation might have been...
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Seabass » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 pm

JimC wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:16 pm
Seabass wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:49 pm
People who know fascism know it's happening in this country. So many refuse to believe it, but all you have to do read the history. Read your Hannah Arendt. Read your William Shirer. We are not immune. No one is immune.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/17/styl ... rview.html
Recalling the bizarre incident, Mr. Baron Cohen said, “I remember my late father watching Trump on the campaign trail in 2016. I said, ‘What do you think of him?’ He said, ‘Two things. He’s extremely entertaining. Far more entertaining than Hillary. Two, he’s a fascist.’ My dad was born in 1932. He’d seen fascists on the streets, Mosley’s Blackshirts beating up Jews. And he knew what fascism was.”
It may be reasonable to call Trump and his Republican coterie fascists. It certainly applies to the gamut of racist, right-wing extremist groups that he gives tacit support to. But where you were OTT was applying that label to all Trump voters, whatever their circumstances and motivation might have been...
Would it be unfair to call all Germans who supported the Nazi party fascists? Many of them didn't check all the boxes, but they were supporters of a fascist movement, no?
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:01 am

Maybe tweets? maybe speech?

Back to showers and toilets.

"I won't talk about the fact that people have to flush their toilet 15 times. I will not talk about it. I'll only talk about showers and, okay, there are three things. I won't talk about it. This way they can't report it."

"I had 12 doctors around the bed, and every one was grabbing a different part of my body."

"Do you ever stop w/ these forest fires? Can you ever stop? They gotta manage the forest. You know, they talk, it's all sorts of reasons. They gotta manage the forest. Manage it. It's called forest management...now they have a new thing, they're running out of water"- Trump on California

"You know what they do? Millions of gallons of hour come down from the north. Pour down, pour down. They have so much water. But they route it into the Pacific Ocean, b/c they have a smelt, right? Is it a smelt? How's that for a memory, right? ... it's a little tiny fish"

"I don't know why we wouldn't win California. We're playing it a little bit."
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:15 am

Seabass wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 pm
JimC wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:16 pm
Seabass wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:49 pm
People who know fascism know it's happening in this country. So many refuse to believe it, but all you have to do read the history. Read your Hannah Arendt. Read your William Shirer. We are not immune. No one is immune.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/17/styl ... rview.html
Recalling the bizarre incident, Mr. Baron Cohen said, “I remember my late father watching Trump on the campaign trail in 2016. I said, ‘What do you think of him?’ He said, ‘Two things. He’s extremely entertaining. Far more entertaining than Hillary. Two, he’s a fascist.’ My dad was born in 1932. He’d seen fascists on the streets, Mosley’s Blackshirts beating up Jews. And he knew what fascism was.”
It may be reasonable to call Trump and his Republican coterie fascists. It certainly applies to the gamut of racist, right-wing extremist groups that he gives tacit support to. But where you were OTT was applying that label to all Trump voters, whatever their circumstances and motivation might have been...
Would it be unfair to call all Germans who supported the Nazi party fascists? Many of them didn't check all the boxes, but they were supporters of a fascist movement, no?
Some of them chose to support fascism because they agreed with it, some went with it because they didn't have much of a choice or the power or means to oppose it; some opposed it and kept quiet for the sake of themselves and their families, some opposed it openly and paid the price; some of them got out, some of them didn't. The existence of a fascist state doesn't make everyone who lives under it a fascist. What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Seabass » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:48 am

Of course I'm not talking about the Germans who were forced into Nazism.

I'm talking about actual supporters of the party and the movement and the ideology. When I make these comparisons I'm talking about early stages of Nazism/fascism, obviously. Forced Nazification came later. Forced Trumpification is not here... yet...
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:54 am

What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:22 am

Well they (Trump voters) did have the choice to vote for someone else. That's plenty powerful.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Seabass » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:35 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:54 am
What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?
Eh? I support the regime when I pay taxes. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who want him in power, the people who vote for him, who donate to his campaign, who buy his merch, the people who work for him and his campaign, his cheerleaders on TV, his rally goers, and so on.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by JimC » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:00 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:22 am
Well they (Trump voters) did have the choice to vote for someone else. That's plenty powerful.
They did, but all the analysts seem to agree that there was so much anger against the perceived elitist establishment, personified in the last election by Hillary Clinton, that voting for Trump was an angry gesture of despair for many...
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Seabass » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:07 am

JimC wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:00 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:22 am
Well they (Trump voters) did have the choice to vote for someone else. That's plenty powerful.
They did, but all the analysts seem to agree that there was so much anger against the perceived elitist establishment, personified in the last election by Hillary Clinton, that voting for Trump was an angry gesture of despair for many...
You could the same regarding those Germans who voted for the Nazi party. Were they not fascists?
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:25 am

Not waiting in the sidelines anymore:

'It is serious and intense': white supremacist domestic terror threat looms large in US
From the frequency of attacks to the scope of ambition, racist terror groups – encouraged by the president, are showing unparalleled activity in the modern era

On 6 October Chad Wolf, the acting secretary of homeland security, released his department’s annual assessment of violent threats to the nation. Analysts didn’t have to dig deep into the assessment to discover its alarming content.

In a foreword, Wolf wrote that he was “particularly concerned about white supremacist violent extremists who have been exceptionally lethal in their abhorrent, targeted attacks in recent years. [They] seek to force ideological change in the United States through violence, death, and destruction.”

Two days later, the FBI swooped. It arrested 13 rightwing extremists who had allegedly been plotting to carry out a range of attacks in Michigan, including the kidnapping of Democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer.

Later revelations revealed that a group of anti-government paramilitaries that included some of those arrested had also discussed kidnapping the governor of Virginia.

The double strike, just days apart, of the threat assessment and the Michigan plot arrests marked an important moment in America’s tortured history of racist terrorism. US authorities appeared not only to have woken up finally to the extent of the white supremacist threat but were actually doing something about it.

As the FBI director Christopher Wray told Congress in February, “racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists” have become the “primary source of ideologically-motivated lethal incidents” in the US. The danger overshadowed the jihadist threat that has dominated the security debate since 9/11.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:17 am

Seabass wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:35 am
Brian Peacock wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:54 am
What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?
Eh? I support the regime when I pay taxes. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who want him in power, the people who vote for him, who donate to his campaign, who buy his merch, the people who work for him and his campaign, his cheerleaders on TV, his rally goers, and so on.
What about the people who voted for him for other reasons than the one you like to focus on - who supported him to bring their jobs back, to drain The Swamp, to bring the troops home, to protect the unborn, to punished that nasty... so nasty... Elite woman for Benghazi? Sure, he lied about most of that, and he wanted to build a wall, and ban Muslims, and he's been very reluctant to denounce real fascists and the Saturday morning warriors who parade under the Confederate flag etc, but don't you think non-racist, non-fascistly inclined people might have also supported him for reasons beyond the purely malign and evil? Nonetheless, if were only talking about the people who did support him for fascistic and/or racist reasons then we're obviously talking about a subset - and I guess we have to turn to questions about the composition of that subset and how it relates to the greater group(?), and perhaps along the way we'd touch on that old debate about how moderates often give cover to extremists.

Getting Trump out (Oh please Jesus, please) isn't going to be an inoculation against the factors which brought him to power, but at least it's a start. And yet if people's ideas about making things better only run as far as getting a Democrat into the White House then not much is going to change is it - those factors and tensions will still exist in society; those same structures that have supported and facilitated a man like Trump won't just blow away on the wind. Even if we write-off the fascists and/or racists as a lost cause, there's still a lot of people that lean the Republican way who'll need to be carried along if real, positive change is going to manifest in reality. In order for that change to happen someone, somewhere, at some point, is going to have to start talking seriously about what they actually stand for rather than simply signposting what they stand against.

Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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