BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Rum » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:48 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:38 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:15 pm
pErvinalia wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 pm
What exactly is Labour's position on Brexit?
The membership are overwhelmingly against it - the leadership are almost entirely for it. The conflict arises from the fact that in traditional, economically impoverished, Labour heartlands the electorate bought the Brexiteers lie and voted Leave.
What lie did they buy?
That the country was being changed by uncontrolled immigration and all the usual scapegoating that goes with the fear of the in comer.

However it is lazy thinking to assume everyone who was worried about all those eastern Europeans suddenly turning up were racist xenophobes - which some would have it. Many ordinary British people could see the impact of society changing - you could not miss it - foreign languages on the street, Eastern European shops opening, pressure on public services - and felt they had not been consulted - as indeed they had not.

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:55 pm

PsychoSerenity wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:23 pm
pErvinalia wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:57 pm
Are they for or against Brexit?
Labour are in favour of it only if it can be done in a way which causes as little disruption as possible i.e. remaining in the customs union. Unfortunately May has refused to even let parliament debate the possibility of that sort of Brexit, insisting that leaving the customs union is one of her red lines. Labour are opposed to that, and if that is the only option would want to put it to a second referendum, between that and remaining, in which case they would campaign to remain.
I thought staying in the customs union was part of the two deals May has negotiated with the EU. :think:
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:39 am

You can't be in a customs union between parties - free movement of goods and service across borders - if you have the ability to undercut that other party through tariff manipulation and/or subsidies etc. It would basically amount to a state sponsored system of legalised smuggling.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 am

But isn't the customs union necessary to avoid a hard border in Ireland?
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:37 am

Exactly. The Good Friday agreement which mandates an open border on the island of ireland is an international peace treaty no UK government, of whatever hue, cannot simply dump for political expediency or convenience - to do so would be against UK law for one thing. The proposed workaround from Brexiteers is the introduction of a kind of virtual hard boarder policed by "new technology" - which is something yet to be invented, let alone implemented anywhere else.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Rum » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:41 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 am
But isn't the customs union necessary to avoid a hard border in Ireland?
That’s the circle they simply can’t square - so far.

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:54 am

Circles? Squares?? Pshaw! Are you some kind of geometry expert? We've had enough of experts.
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:06 am

Simple solution. Unite Ireland as a European Peace initiative as a federal state. Re-elect cross border political parties to a new Parliament on the Border (a small executive one). Belfast and Dublin will be regional governments.

Buy the DUP a new set of pipes and drums and give them a a couple of streets to march on.

(just dreaming :thinks: )
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:48 am

The DUP have been shamelessly opportunistic in their Brexitarian stance considering NI voted overwhelmingly to Remain. They don't just have red lines on Brexit, they have ..."Blood-red lines; lines soaked in the blood of patriots who have given their lives to defend the Union." There's literally no reasoning with such a science-denying bunch of creationist god-botherers.


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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:53 am

They are total irrelevance verging on the criminal.
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:56 am

A total irrelevance with 10 seats in Parliament.

Personally, I'd sell NI to the highest bidder.
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:01 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:53 am
They are total irrelevance verging on the criminal.
An irrelevance? They have more seats than the Lib Dems! (Oh, I see what you mean) And they're holding up the government by supply and confidence, for a billion quid, but still....
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Svartalf » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:02 am

fear lest the protestants can gather enough money to buy themselves a permanent place in the UK
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Animavore » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:03 am

Why do people keep trying to foist Northern Ireland on us?

You keep it.
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:29 am

Well how irrelevant are the LibDems now. Even Cable realise he was talking in a telephone booth.

Ani it would be for peace and security. As long as groups as the DUP exist the problem will exist.
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