Modern Anti-Semitism

[Svartalf]

You can take a savage out of it's tribe, but you can't suppress the tribal nature of the savage.

[NineBerry]

Nazis working with saracens, even against the common Jewish foe? perish the thought.

There is some cooperation between classic German neo nazis and Muslim nationalist organizations outside Germany (mostly with Palestinian groups). This was mostly based on the common anti-semitism. The height of this was in the 70ies and 80ies. Back then there was the idea that the muslim "guest workers" would remain outside of society and then leave at some time in the future so they were not seen as that big of a threat to "German purity".

It was really absurd what was happening back then. For example, the US would support European Far-Right groups as guardians against communism while those groups were at the same time opposed to the big US ally Israel. Then, both far-right and far-left groups would at the same time cooperate with the same Palestinian groups.

But since the mid 90ies most right-wing extremists in Germany switched because the Muslims that are already in Germany and are coming to Germany are now seen as a threat since they are now meant to integrate into society. Also, communism cannot be sold any longer as a big threat. "Islamization" has replaced that.

[Svartalf]

well, here, it's been since the 1976 decree about regrouping families. Before then, foreign ghest workers were not allowed to bring their families with them, which was regarded as an incentive for them to go back home when their stint in our industries was over. Then Pdt Giscard d'Estaing allowed them to bring wives and children into the country, which led to the creation of massive ghettos, massive abuse especially from muslim folk with several wives and hordes of children, difficulties for the education and health system to handle the new influx of patients, difficulties to find lodgings for everybody... I've hear right wing people calll for giscard to be judged for high treason. the latent french antisemitism mostly turned into anti arab, anti african sentiments.... interestingly enough, the worst antisemites now are muslims.

[Rum]

The last time we drove from Cailais to the South (with a stopover in Paris), we got lost around the city (very easily done as the road signage is terrible), and at one point, somewhere to the east I think, of the suburbs drove through a huge neighbourhood of high rise apartment blocks. Every single person, pretty much was North African or African in appearance. I was slightly shocked - not out of any racial consideration as such, but the obvious lack of integration.

[Svartalf]

problem is that I'm not even sure they assimilated the French dream and want to integrate, plus, un like other groups like Poles, Italians and Portuguese, the culture and religion are too different to make assimilation easy, plus, the numbers allow them to actually form ghettos where they can perpetuate their own habits rather than conforming to ours.

[Brian Peacock]

The anti-Semite has chosen hate because hate is a faith; at the outset he has chosen to devaluate words and reasons. How entirely at ease he feels as a result. How futile and frivolous discussions about the rights of the Jew appear to him. He has pleased himself on other ground from the beginning. If out of courtesy he consents for a moment to defend his point of view, he lends himself but does not give himself. He tries simply to project his intuitive certainty onto the plane of discourse.

I mentioned awhile back some remarks by anti-Semites, all of them absurd: "I hate Jews because they make servants insubordinate, because a Jewish furrier robbed me, etc." Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side. If then, as we have been able to observe, the anti-Semite is impervious to reason and to experience, it is not because his conviction is strong. Rather his conviction is strong because he has chosen first of all to be impervious.

-- Sartre, Anit-Semite and Jew, 1944

• Wikipedia
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[Rum]

I wish my French was good enough to read Sartre in the original. Like rather a lot of french ‘philosophers’ he comes over as overblown, verbose and too wordy to be taken seriously in English. I can never shake of the image of guys like him holding court and having it large in cafes filled with Gauloises smoke and red wine fumes.

Blasphemy in some circles I know!

[Sean Hayden]

I haven't read him in 20 years! I just thought all philosophers talked like that. It didn't occur to me that it could be the result of a translation.

[Rum]

I haven't read him in 20 years! I just thought all philosophers talked like that. It didn't occur to me that it could be the result of a translation.

Not long ago you could find whole book shops dedicated to philosophy and general verbiage in larger french towns. I think it may say something about the French rather than translation per se. They love a good natter about what la vie is all about they do!

[Brian Peacock]

And they smell of garlic.


Just sayin'

[Sean Hayden]

I love garlic, also, just saying.

[Scot Dutchy]

Dont come near my house then.

[Sean Hayden]

[NineBerry]

[laklak]

If I was going to be anything other than a 'Murikan I'd be French.