Right or 'Alt-Right'?

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 18529
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Cunt » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:50 pm

Can anyone tell me who is simply on the political right, and who is 'alt-right'?

It seems like the label is applied to everyone right of far-left right now.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37956
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:43 am

Already have, but you just don't want to hear it. Try the internet.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 18529
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:08 pm

The right has been obcured a bit, Brian Peacock. I don't have a problem with those who identify themselves as alt-right. That's clear enough.

But normal people on the right keep getting labeled as alt-right, so I wanted to know who you folks think of as 'normal-right'.

If you can't name any, that is an answer of a sort.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:08 pm

Ted Cruz is religious right, not alt-right.
Marco Rubio is right, not alt right.
Trump is moderate, leans right, not alt right.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 40340
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Svartalf » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:10 pm

trump is anything but a moderate, and his supporters are far right
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:27 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:10 pm
trump is anything but a moderate, and his supporters are far right
His supporters are largely moderate. If his supporters were limited to the far right, he wouldn't have much support, as the far right makes up a small percentage of the electorate.

Trump ran on a more moderate agenda, and he's kept his promises. His rhetoric and Tweets set people off, but his policies are moderate. You can see this when you watch speeches on immigration by Obama and Bill Clinton. They're much the same as what Trump says. Only, it's Trump so - orange man bad. Here's Vox agreeing - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... republican
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 18529
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:29 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:10 pm
trump is anything but a moderate, and his supporters are far right
You might want to check your math (or maybe it's your language).

I would say 'his supporters' are those who honestly voted, and maybe a few others who clearly supported him in other ways.

If that group is 'far right', then the majority of people have to be 'far right', since he got half the votes. It kind of makes the definition a bit meaningless, when it is applied to more than half a population.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 18529
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:34 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:27 pm
Svartalf wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:10 pm
trump is anything but a moderate, and his supporters are far right
His supporters are largely moderate. If his supporters were limited to the far right, he wouldn't have much support, as the far right makes up a small percentage of the electorate.

Trump ran on a more moderate agenda, and he's kept his promises. His rhetoric and Tweets set people off, but his policies are moderate. You can see this when you watch speeches on immigration by Obama and Bill Clinton. They're much the same as what Trump says. Only, it's Trump so - orange man bad. Here's Vox agreeing - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... republican
Trump is very successful at drawing out idiots and idiocy on the left. It doesn't mean smart people don't exist on the left, but they aren't baited into celebrity status by their response to his shit. If Ms. Warren hadn't gone and gotten a test to prove Trump was wrong, she would be in better shape politically.

It's why I like to listen carefully for Trump Derangement Syndrome. The barking mad seem to LOVE hating him loudly.

To me (an outsider) he seems to be a fairly elected president, fulfilling election promises at a higher-than-average rate. That sounds to me like exactly what one would want, but then again, be careful what you wish for...

I always laugh about the 'democracy' dreamers...they who think democracy would be a great idea, unless the voters decide something racist, sexist or not intersectional enough.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:53 pm

I think this is coming through a lens that says Barack Obama as "center right." If Obama is center right, how far right is a conservative Republican, lol.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 17882
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: recovering humanist
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm

It's the promises he has kept and is working to keep that make many hate him. It's climate change (Paris agreement, Weakening the EPA, Bringing back coal), it's education (Doesn't believe in a common core, Wants to destroy the department of education), it's immigration (Travel ban, Wants to kick out all Syrian refugees, Grow ICE), it's foreign policy (Moves embassy to the "eternal" capital of Jews, Wants out of the Iran deal) yadda, yadda.


Fuck off with the there may be some clever bastids on the left. You know that the left is home to the smartest bastids. There may be some clever assholes on the right.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 17882
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: recovering humanist
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:18 pm

BTW I'd like to apologize for calling you a creep Cunt and being generally shitty toward you. If it weren't for assholes like you we'd just be an echo chamber after all. :cheers:

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:51 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm
It's the promises he has kept and is working to keep that make many hate him. It's climate change (Paris agreement, Weakening the EPA, Bringing back coal),
All great moves, to do away with political boondoggles. and crony capitalist nonsense. Yes, it makes many hate him, but those folks have different priorities and are more than willing to sit with higher unemployment because more people on the government dole doesn't bother them. The extreme left thinks everyone should have their income "fairly" determined by the government (hence their applauding and unqualified support of nonsense like Elizabeth Warren's bid to take over the boards of directors of private corporations).
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm

it's education (Doesn't believe in a common core, Wants to destroy the department of education),
What's wrong with not "believing" in common core? Common Core, particularly in the early years, like K through 3rd grade, erroneously assume that all children develop and learn skills at the same rate and in the same way. There is a lack of research to support Common Core early childhood standards. The standards were not pilot tested and there isn't any ongoing research or review of their impact on children and on early childhood education. The English Common Core standards are too ambiguous. Common Core writing eliminates emulation of classic writers from the curriculum, and eliminates learning about writers and their lives. Common Core devalues literature as art and basically ignores literary genres and historical context. Poetry is not even acknowledged in the standards.

Common Core gets rid of some important fundamentals - like in terms of vocabulary, it eliminates the requirements of learning Latin and Greek root words. Common Core English essentially fails to teach kids the "basics" of an English curriculum. There is no cursive writing standard, and they are no longer taught technical writing - like, a letter, an email, a resume' whatever. I can keep on going.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with eliminating the department of education. It's only been around since 1979. It doesn't educate anybody. It spends $100 billion per year - almost double the NASA budget - and doesn't really accomplish its task. It has not produced a better educated populace than we had 40 years ago. Probably the reverse.
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm

it's immigration (Travel ban, Wants to kick out all Syrian refugees, Grow ICE),
His immigration policy is good. The travel ban applied to 7 countries, and was temporary until a better vetting process could be enacted. The opposition to that was purely political gamesmanship. He doesn't want to kick out all Syrian refugees, but his plan to get better control over who is coming in is reasonable. And "grow ICE?" Since it's not even the end of the year and we're pushing almost 400,000 border crossing apprehensions alone, it seems we have a bit of an issue on our hands.
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm
it's foreign policy (Moves embassy to the "eternal" capital of Jews, Wants out of the Iran deal) yadda, yadda.
The Iran deal was stupid, and Israel's capitol is Jerusalem. The law moving the embassy to Jerusalen is over 20 years old and was enacted under the Clinton Administration. The authority was only granted to the President to hold that law in abeyance temporarily, and that had to be renewed over and over. Trump decided not to renew it. Good.
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm
Fuck off with the there may be some clever bastids on the left. You know that the left is home to the smartest bastids. There may be some clever assholes on the right.
I have no issue with there being clever bastids on the left. There are. The differences of opinion start at premises. That's why neither side lets itself understand the other - so many people don't try to find out why the other side comes to a conclusion that appears so utterly unacceptable. How can that be? Is the other side "evil?" Maybe. But, it's also possible that they're starting with different assumptions and premises, and drawing different conclusions as a result.

What I mean is, when I say that eliminating regulations is good, some on the left can't imagine how I could think that. The reason is not that they are evil, and twirl their moustaches as they figure ways to hamstring good, honest, hard-working people. And, the reason is not that I'm evil and twirl my moustache as I figure a way to let loose foxes in the hen house. The difference, usually, is that they have difference premises than me. They have a different end goal in mind - a different definition of the good life - a different definition of "good" or a different understanding of cost/benefit relationship of given regulations.

We can understand each other. Most of the time, though, people don't want to. You'll see it in many of the discussions here, and how quickly a simple, non-controversial discussion devolves into namecalling, insult, and declarations of one side being evil or having ill-intent.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 17882
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: recovering humanist
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:29 pm

We've been over the education bit before. Although it's popular to say that education has gotten worse, the numbers don't support that.

I like the idea of a department of education. I like a department whose job it is to monitor education and collect relevant data to be used by everyone to make informed decisions. That's just one of their many good qualities. As for what individual schools teach that's a matter for the states to decide. Unfortunately, we see how many states want to teach horseshit to their students. But even in Texas, where creationists are everywhere and would be book burners too, the teachers can teach using a variety of methods drawing from all kinds of material. If you think they aren't doing that then get active. Don't blame the department of education, and really don't advocate for putting idiots who hate public education in charge of it ffs!

With immigration, for me, it's more a worry about the lack of nuance and the attitudes Trump and co rhetoric create around the issue. I'm afraid it's a slippery slope argument from me, but it's one I can't shake. We are a nation of immigrants. We need to ensure that we honor that fact while enforcing immigration law and do what's best for people seeking asylum. This is especially true where we may be responsible for the asylum seekers situation.

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 18529
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:30 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm
It's the promises he has kept and is working to keep that make many hate him. It's climate change (Paris agreement, Weakening the EPA, Bringing back coal), it's education (Doesn't believe in a common core, Wants to destroy the department of education), it's immigration (Travel ban, Wants to kick out all Syrian refugees, Grow ICE), it's foreign policy (Moves embassy to the "eternal" capital of Jews, Wants out of the Iran deal) yadda, yadda.


Fuck off with the there may be some clever bastids on the left. You know that the left is home to the smartest bastids. There may be some clever assholes on the right.
My point was that any smart lefties would be less likely to respond to his bait. They likely recognize it.

I don't really think of myself as left or right, but on issues, I come down pretty left. Voting, historically left, but getting less and less likely to keep supporting them. Nice enough people, until they meet genuine disagreement. So far, I see few lefties willing to engage.

Some standouts - Stephen Fry. He debated against the proposition that political correctness was good, and was the smartest person on the stage. Everyone 'left' should rightly have been on his side, but opposing him were authoritarian assholes with 'identity politics' firmly taking precedence over reason.

If there is a politician who would gain my attention now, it would be one who talked to everyone, not just the 'clean' causes. Immigration, for example, is NOT clean...it's hard to talk about it at all without cries of racism. No suggested remedies for that racism, just the screech and run tactics of someone who won't usually deal with the reality.
Sean Hayden wrote:nation of immigrants
Are you equating immigrants with crimmigrants?

Those are two very different groups to mix on purpose. I wonder why anyone would do it...unless it was accidental, of course.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists


Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 17882
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: recovering humanist
Contact:

Re: Right or 'Alt-Right'?

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:12 pm

You might consider that as blurring goes, it happens both ways. Thus my reaction to the lack of nuance and inflammatory rhetoric.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tero and 29 guests