Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post Reply
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 10248
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:05 am

DRSB wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:16 am
I don't see how jobs can be secure unless the shareholders can guarantee they won't fold. And how can they unless they are the state?
If a company folds the wages and positions of the permanent workers is the first priority by the liquidators. Any other claims against the company are dealt with later. Temporaries have no rights. Also the government has special funds it can use to help. If the company is a member of a sector organisation the it produces funds as well. All workers contracts and working conditions are negotiated per sector and not per company.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
DRSB
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:07 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by DRSB » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:10 am

In Switzerland more and more jobs are temporary. Even the company management only gets temporary mandates from the shareholders.
"Change will lead to insight more often than insight will lead to change." A wise person said.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 10248
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:37 am

DRSB wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:10 am
In Switzerland more and more jobs are temporary. Even the company management only gets temporary mandates from the shareholders.
Before we had this period of maintained growth it was going the same way here. Getting a permanent contract was made very difficult. Now with the shortage in skilled workers they are being used as carrots.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 8569
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Pre-Modernist
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by rainbow » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:59 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:05 am
DRSB wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:16 am
I don't see how jobs can be secure unless the shareholders can guarantee they won't fold. And how can they unless they are the state?
If a company folds the wages and positions of the permanent workers is the first priority by the liquidators. Any other claims against the company are dealt with later. Temporaries have no rights. Also the government has special funds it can use to help. If the company is a member of a sector organisation the it produces funds as well. All workers contracts and working conditions are negotiated per sector and not per company.
In most countries the government takes the first cut in owing taxes and excise, then the banks, then the employees, then the creditors, and the shareholders last. The top management, knowing what is going to happen take a fat bonus before the news gets out that the company is about to go under.
Corporate Cronyism rather than Classical Capitalism.
Fala cara de cú!

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 10248
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am

rainbow wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:59 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:05 am
DRSB wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:16 am
I don't see how jobs can be secure unless the shareholders can guarantee they won't fold. And how can they unless they are the state?
If a company folds the wages and positions of the permanent workers is the first priority by the liquidators. Any other claims against the company are dealt with later. Temporaries have no rights. Also the government has special funds it can use to help. If the company is a member of a sector organisation the it produces funds as well. All workers contracts and working conditions are negotiated per sector and not per company.
In most countries the government takes the first cut in owing taxes and excise, then the banks, then the employees, then the creditors, and the shareholders last. The top management, knowing what is going to happen take a fat bonus before the news gets out that the company is about to go under.
Corporate Cronyism rather than Classical Capitalism.
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 8569
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Pre-Modernist
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by rainbow » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
Communists!
Fala cara de cú!

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 35778
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Rum » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:40 pm

rainbow wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
Communists!
He says it like it is a good thing. While the zero hours jobs market is definitely a bad thing as a retired oppressive, privileged power hungry and insensitive senior manager in a large organization I would want it to be efficient and rightly or wrongly that means firing people now and again. Being tied up in procedural stuff for months on end just saps everyone's will to live. A middle way is the most desirable - as in so many things.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 10248
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:00 pm

Rum wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:40 pm
rainbow wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
Communists!
He says it like it is a good thing. While the zero hours jobs market is definitely a bad thing as a retired oppressive, privileged power hungry and insensitive senior manager in a large organization I would want it to be efficient and rightly or wrongly that means firing people now and again. Being tied up in procedural stuff for months on end just saps everyone's will to live. A middle way is the most desirable - as in so many things.
Spoken like an adversarial capitalist. Companies know the rules and learn to play nicely within them which is why this society is lest stressful. Life is not just work.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
DRSB
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:07 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by DRSB » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:03 pm

Rum wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:40 pm
rainbow wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
Communists!
He says it like it is a good thing. While the zero hours jobs market is definitely a bad thing as a retired oppressive, privileged power hungry and insensitive senior manager in a large organization I would want it to be efficient and rightly or wrongly that means firing people now and again. Being tied up in procedural stuff for months on end just saps everyone's will to live. A middle way is the most desirable - as in so many things.
I too have seen many useless managers in banks who stay nicely put sending excel sheets around with no other merit to their name other than being male, from the inner land or an army officer. They are in meritocracy cliques and move together, making a move without the clique equals suicide and they know it. When the clique king falls, they fall too .
"Change will lead to insight more often than insight will lead to change." A wise person said.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 59716
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by JimC » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:41 pm

Rum wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:40 pm
rainbow wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
Communists!
He says it like it is a good thing. While the zero hours jobs market is definitely a bad thing as a retired oppressive, privileged power hungry and insensitive senior manager in a large organization I would want it to be efficient and rightly or wrongly that means firing people now and again. Being tied up in procedural stuff for months on end just saps everyone's will to live. A middle way is the most desirable - as in so many things.
I know what you mean, but mostly it is the other end of the pendulum, with wilful and capricious firing by employers. In my school, for 40 years or so, the number of people fired was tiny, as was the number of very poor teachers who needed to be fired. One young female teacher was fired (rightly) for having an affair with one of the final year boys, that was about it...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
DRSB
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:07 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by DRSB » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:54 am

"Change will lead to insight more often than insight will lead to change." A wise person said.

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 35778
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Rum » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:30 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:00 pm
Rum wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:40 pm
rainbow wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am
Not here. Permanent workers are priority number 1.
Communists!
He says it like it is a good thing. While the zero hours jobs market is definitely a bad thing as a retired oppressive, privileged power hungry and insensitive senior manager in a large organization I would want it to be efficient and rightly or wrongly that means firing people now and again. Being tied up in procedural stuff for months on end just saps everyone's will to live. A middle way is the most desirable - as in so many things.
Spoken like an adversarial capitalist. Companies know the rules and learn to play nicely within them which is why this society is lest stressful. Life is not just work.
Well I'm so glad I fall so neatly into one of your preconceived stereotypes. I am not an adversarial capitalist - not remotely, but I am a pragmatist and I have little doubt that the system you describe successfully hides and protects some lazy and incompetent managers as well as workers at the coal face.

Local government here is reasonably well unionised compared to the private sector these days, which is hardly at all - a great shame. So the issues I dealt with were done so with care and support. But the buggers needed to be out.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 10248
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:36 pm

No system is perfect but ours does give protection. A pragmatist would examine the system first before taking out the big brush. The great difference problems are solved here before they allowed to grow. Conflict is always avoided not encouraged.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 6029
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Cunt » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:29 pm

If your governments all lie about employment statistics, it sure is a good thing they NEVER do that with carbon credit schemes.

Unless those statistics are also vulnerable to government colouring...
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists
Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 47781
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:03 pm

Cunt wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:29 pm
If your governments all lie about employment statistics, it sure is a good thing they NEVER do that with carbon credit schemes.

Unless those statistics are also vulnerable to government colouring...
They don't lie about employment statistics. The definitions of the stat they use are readily available.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests