Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

[Cunt]

That's what much of the developed world does - or tries to. The model in most European countries and in Oz, Japan and some parts of Asia regulates the market so that capitalism can't ride roughshod over everything in its path. Of course, there is some regulation in the USA too, but nothing like the extent it is in Europe.

Most of the world doesn't protect the rights of the plebes to defend themselves. I believe in your country, you are not even allowed to own knives, if it looks like it could be useful for defending your person.

If only the government is allowed to own weapons, they don't have to worry about overstepping their bounds, right?

[Rum]

That's what much of the developed world does - or tries to. The model in most European countries and in Oz, Japan and some parts of Asia regulates the market so that capitalism can't ride roughshod over everything in its path. Of course, there is some regulation in the USA too, but nothing like the extent it is in Europe.

Most of the world doesn't protect the rights of the plebes to defend themselves. I believe in your country, you are not even allowed to own knives, if it looks like it could be useful for defending your person.

If only the government is allowed to own weapons, they don't have to worry about overstepping their bounds, right?

You have changed the subject. Your inability to concentrate is showing.

The capitalist system is ruthless and left to its own devices eats itself. Marx predicted that in so many words - and arguably we are seeing that happen in America, where monopolies (for example) have much less control, where nobody much regulates how much shit you can put into food and so on.

Here markets are regulated and even controlled in some areas (energy for example) and the rules for competition laid out. This makes it harder for companies whose motive is profit (of course) to exploit the 'plebes' as you disparagingly call them. Buyer beware doesn't have quite the ring here as it does in the USA.

[Rum]

Edit of the above: should read ‘much MORE control’.

[JimC]

And whatever health and safety or environmental controls the US actually has are being eroded by Trump at a rate of knots. It wouldn't surprise me if he tweeted a demand to bring back DDT...

[Seabass]

And whatever health and safety or environmental controls the US actually has are being eroded by Trump at a rate of knots. It wouldn't surprise me if he tweeted a demand to bring back DDT...

He wants to bring back asbestos. This is not a joke. He's got a weird obsession with asbestos that goes back decades, and he wants to make it legal.

[pErvinalia]

Fark.

[Strontium Dog]

Honestly, the only excuse I've heard is well that's not TRUE socialism. WTF is it, then?

It was definitely true socialism when British lefties were praising Venezuela to the hilt. You only need to look at the abuse received by those of us who predicted Venezuela's destination years ago.

[Woodbutcher]

Communism is only a theory...

[Svartalf]

actually, it's an ideology, the fact it's actually impossible to realise given human nature is a secondary factor.

[Cunt]

I think protecting people's right to defend themselves, creates a system where it is very difficult and complicated to provide valuable services to all regardless of their contribution.

I like having good services to tap for help. I am not stupid enough to think my country can support the whole world, though. A border has to be drawn, maintained and enforced, or we would NEVER have enough for anyone.

[Rum]

I don't follow the logic of your first sentence. How would a population that shoots many of its own members so regularly have trouble providing common services for themselves? I don't see the connection.

[Forty Two]

If you think China offers a better level of economic well being to its people than the western capitalist countries, I'd ask you to substantiate that. The only areas where China has prospered is where they have dipped their toe in the water to liberalize their economic policies. Chinese living standards are about 20% of (not 20% below, 20% OF) the US, and about 30% of the EU average. China provides a nice example of Socialism sucking.

China's GDP growth rates have dwarfed the US's for decades. I suppose you'll say that's the capitalism part. To be honest, your whole position reeks of a begging the question fallacy. You start from the assumption that all the good stuff is capitalism and all the bad stuff is socialism, and then you apply that to all the good and bad you see around the world, as if that is some form of argument.

Once again, their GDP growth rate is a function of the areas where they have economically liberalized. Even with five times the population, China's GDP is less than 2/3 that of the US. That should indicate how far behind the US most other countries are. Third place Japan has a GDP 2 1/2 times smaller than China.

I do not start from the proposition that all good stuff is capitalism and all bad stuff is socialism. I based my statement on the fact that the areas of China's geography and economy where there has been an increase in economic well-being - the engine of that increased GDP - are the areas where China has increased, not decreased, economic liberalism.

In 1978, China began opening up its economy to foreign investment and private enterprise. By 2005, the private sector in China broke past 50% of the economy. And, during that time period, as the private sector grew, China's GDP grew around 10% annually - every year. Then after Deng left and Xi Jinping took over - China started reigning in the free market and increase its State control over enterprises - hundreds of corporate firms were required to revise their corporate charters to give the Chicom Party more power over corporate affairs and governance. That started in 2012-13, and since then the Chinese economic growth has been slowing.

Roughly three-quarters of the Chinese (76%) agree that most people are better off in a free market economy. And since 2002, the Chinese have consistently been one of the strongest proponents of capitalism compared with other publics around the world, even more so than Americans and Western Europeans.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... apitalism/

The past 30 years have brought enormous changes to the Chinese economy. In the late 1970s, the government started opening the economy to foreign investment and privatization. With these changes came sky-high economic growth – an average of 10% since 1980.

[Svartalf]

I don't follow the logic of your first sentence. How would a population that shoots many of its own members so regularly have trouble providing common services for themselves? I don't see the connection.

He's a yank, 2nd amendment and all that

[Rum]

I don't follow the logic of your first sentence. How would a population that shoots many of its own members so regularly have trouble providing common services for themselves? I don't see the connection.

He's a yank, 2nd amendment and all that

I understand what the second amendment says and does - of course. I'm just not sure how he can make a logical jump from that to the idea that it results in poor social services.

[pErvinalia]

If you think China offers a better level of economic well being to its people than the western capitalist countries, I'd ask you to substantiate that. The only areas where China has prospered is where they have dipped their toe in the water to liberalize their economic policies. Chinese living standards are about 20% of (not 20% below, 20% OF) the US, and about 30% of the EU average. China provides a nice example of Socialism sucking.

China's GDP growth rates have dwarfed the US's for decades. I suppose you'll say that's the capitalism part. To be honest, your whole position reeks of a begging the question fallacy. You start from the assumption that all the good stuff is capitalism and all the bad stuff is socialism, and then you apply that to all the good and bad you see around the world, as if that is some form of argument.

Once again, their GDP growth rate is a function of the areas where they have economically liberalized. Even with five times the population, China's GDP is less than 2/3 that of the US. That should indicate how far behind the US most other countries are. Third place Japan has a GDP 2 1/2 times smaller than China.

I do not start from the proposition that all good stuff is capitalism and all bad stuff is socialism. I based my statement on the fact that the areas of China's geography and economy where there has been an increase in economic well-being - the engine of that increased GDP - are the areas where China has increased, not decreased, economic liberalism.

In 1978, China began opening up its economy to foreign investment and private enterprise. By 2005, the private sector in China broke past 50% of the economy. And, during that time period, as the private sector grew, China's GDP grew around 10% annually - every year. Then after Deng left and Xi Jinping took over - China started reigning in the free market and increase its State control over enterprises - hundreds of corporate firms were required to revise their corporate charters to give the Chicom Party more power over corporate affairs and governance. That started in 2012-13, and since then the Chinese economic growth has been slowing.

Roughly three-quarters of the Chinese (76%) agree that most people are better off in a free market economy. And since 2002, the Chinese have consistently been one of the strongest proponents of capitalism compared with other publics around the world, even more so than Americans and Western Europeans.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... apitalism/

The past 30 years have brought enormous changes to the Chinese economy. In the late 1970s, the government started opening the economy to foreign investment and privatization. With these changes came sky-high economic growth – an average of 10% since 1980.

Well the Chinese state owns something like 80% of commercial activity, and its GDP craps on the US. That's not a "nice example of socialism sucking". Unless you are going to claim that China isn't socialist anymore.