Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:38 pm

Cunt wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:44 pm
everything back assward
Hate speech laws. They are supported most from the left.
Hate speech isn't a "different idea".
One would think that being here, you would recognize the value of freedom of speech, and the danger presented by hate speech laws...but they are lefty, so you are probably not even noticing, instead focusing on any example you can find that the left are not horrible at making this choice.
Yes, being able to call for the genocide of ethnic minorities (for example) is so important for freedom of speech. :roll:
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Cunt » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:34 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:38 pm
Cunt wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:44 pm
everything back assward
Hate speech laws. They are supported most from the left.
Hate speech isn't a "different idea".
What if I declared what you just wrote as 'hate speech'?
One would think that being here, you would recognize the value of freedom of speech, and the danger presented by hate speech laws...but they are lefty, so you are probably not even noticing, instead focusing on any example you can find that the left are not horrible at making this choice.
Yes, being able to call for the genocide of ethnic minorities (for example) is so important for freedom of speech. :roll:
Who did that? You? Me?

Did you forget to take some pills? Calling for genocide happens so infrequently, it must be a hallucination, or a simple lie to embellesh your point. I don't care which, since both amount to bullshit without some firm backup.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:01 am

Cunt wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:34 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:38 pm
Cunt wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:44 pm
everything back assward
Hate speech laws. They are supported most from the left.
Hate speech isn't a "different idea".
What if I declared what you just wrote as 'hate speech'?
You wouldn't be able to back that up with any sort of reason or logic. Aside from religious protections, due to historical inertia, hate speech laws are bound by a reasonable principle. "Not liking what someone says" isn't a reasonable principle.
One would think that being here, you would recognize the value of freedom of speech, and the danger presented by hate speech laws...but they are lefty, so you are probably not even noticing, instead focusing on any example you can find that the left are not horrible at making this choice.
Yes, being able to call for the genocide of ethnic minorities (for example) is so important for freedom of speech. :roll:
Who did that? You? Me?
It's an example of hate speech. Engage your brain, if that's even possible.
Did you forget to take some pills? Calling for genocide happens so infrequently, it must be a hallucination, or a simple lie to embellesh your point. I don't care which, since both amount to bullshit without some firm backup.
It's an example of hate speech. :fp:
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Rum » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:16 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:34 pm
Rum wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:09 pm
Our Labour party is currently just finishing off its annual conference. It is the furthest left any party has been here in 50 years arguably. Their policies would be considered 'Communist' I suspect by many in America. They include making a third of all company board members workers for the company, creating 200,000 green jobs, returning a number of utilities (water as a starter) to State ownership, raising wages all round for the poorest and raising taxes for the better off and rich (about which they are pretty quiet).
:hairfire:
It does seem to be the case that a great many people think socialism (if not outright communism) is a good thing, until they realise they are going to have to pay quite a lot more taxes. There is no such thing, as they say, as a free lunch.

You left out my last sentence in your quote making it sound as if I disapprove of the lack of mention of raising taxes. Not the case. Would happily pay more if it meant a rather more energised and alive working class rather than the dispirited and downtrodden, poorest of us scraping to get by every week.

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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:21 am

outright communism is definitely out for me, I enjoy my rights to private property and would be bothered if people came rifling through my library as if it were some kind of common resource.

Socialism... well, them fat cats get far too much and we downtrodden not enough, why do they have foie gras and champagne when I must do with tap water and a box of sardines? I wanna eat cake sometimes, even if even the Cookie Monster says they are only a sometimes food.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by cronus » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:12 am

Communism is a great idea until your on a corbyn train being relocated to a gulag for one of these green jobs digging ditches.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:18 am

define green job, unless it's on wikipedia

and I don't see how ditch digging is conducive to improving the environment.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by cronus » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:29 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:18 am
define green job, unless it's on wikipedia

and I don't see how ditch digging is conducive to improving the environment.
Yes, he's promised more windmills. He's still a politician however. Got to be very naive to buy windmills...given the fundy nature of his communism.

Coincidence? 200,000 again. :bored:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -by-200000
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:40 am

windmills, like solar panels, are false green, their manufacture and maintenance are not ecologically positive.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by cronus » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:44 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:40 am
windmills, like solar panels, are false green, their manufacture and maintenance are not ecologically positive.
I know that, you can be assured Corbyn knows that. But he's after winning a election. That isn't about truth, it's all about promising heaven on earth.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:52 am

well, when you rise to the top of heaven, you better have a plane around you or it's a loong fall.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Hermit » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:13 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:21 am
outright communism is definitely out for me, I enjoy my rights to private property and would be bothered if people came rifling through my library as if it were some kind of common resource.
I am getting a little tired of arguing about this particular canard, so I'll just copypaste what I said about it previously.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:02 am
FBM wrote:How do you stand on the issue of private property ownership? Would we be better off without it?
Perfect thread for this question. :hehe:

"The abolition of private property" is one of the most often used phrases for scaring the population. It seems to imply that Marx and Engels wanted to create a society in which you can't own a bed, and that the bowl of soup might be snatched from under your spoon at any time and for any reason. Nowhere did Marx or Engels even imply any such thing. When they spoke of the abolition of private property, they only ever used the phrase in the context of the means of production - factories, agricultural landholdings, money used solely to create more money and so forth. They wanted none of that privately owned. While strictly speaking such personal property such as your bed, your soup, your tampon, is a subset of private property, they never concerned themselves with it in relationship to privatisation because it is not a means of production, and as such irrelevant to the relation between capital and labour.

I should note here that I am not a communist in the Marxian sense. Marx was just another obsessively scribbling utopian, and his conception of revolutionary communism can at best be described as fatally inadequate, and looking at all instances where communism through revolution has been attempted, fucking disastrous.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:17 am
PsychoSerenity wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:That's the thing with communism though, why it will never work - people like to own stuff.
But there's no reason under certainly some forms of communism why the vast majority of people couldn't still own as much as they do under capitalism. There's no reason to end ownership of personal property. About the largest thing that could be considered personal property is a home. What would need to be stopped is private and for profit ownership of non-personal property e.g means of production or someone else's home.
Brian Peacock wrote:Sure. But that's not really communism is it?
Actually, it is. Marx and Engels never wrote about the expropriation of private property in the context of your underpants, toothbrush or roof over your head. They only ever used the term "private property" in the context of privately owned means of production. Only through the judicious application of quote mining can one attempt to argue otherwise.
Hermit wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:42 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:The communist model was never very clear.
Well, there are hundreds, if not thousands of communist and socialist models and parties about. (Obligatory Monty Python clip right here) But when it comes to fundamental concepts, such as Marx's and Engels's concept of private property, there is no confusion despite the right wing nuts who try to tell us that under communism a woman will have her tampon ripped out by its string if a female party member has greater need of it.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Rum » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:42 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:40 am
windmills, like solar panels, are false green, their manufacture and maintenance are not ecologically positive.
I'm surprised at you Svarty. This is simply not true. A quick google, as one of many examples will tell you that:


How long does it take to pay back a wind turbine?

Writing in the International Journal of Sustainable Manufacturing, they conclude that in terms of cumulative energy payback, or the time to produce the amount of energy required of production and installation, a wind turbine with a working life of 20 years will offer a net benefit within five to eight months of being ...16 Jun 2014

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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:27 pm

Rum wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:16 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:34 pm
Rum wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:09 pm
Our Labour party is currently just finishing off its annual conference. It is the furthest left any party has been here in 50 years arguably. Their policies would be considered 'Communist' I suspect by many in America. They include making a third of all company board members workers for the company, creating 200,000 green jobs, returning a number of utilities (water as a starter) to State ownership, raising wages all round for the poorest and raising taxes for the better off and rich (about which they are pretty quiet).
:hairfire:
It does seem to be the case that a great many people think socialism (if not outright communism) is a good thing, until they realise they are going to have to pay quite a lot more taxes. There is no such thing, as they say, as a free lunch.

You left out my last sentence in your quote making it sound as if I disapprove of the lack of mention of raising taxes. Not the case. Would happily pay more if it meant a rather more energised and alive working class rather than the dispirited and downtrodden, poorest of us scraping to get by every week.
It's about time we stopped believing politicians when they say that we can have Scandinavian levels of public services on Sudanese levels of taxes - but we seem to fall for it every time. I think people are slowing getting wise to the fact that making the very wealthy even wealthier ultimately makes the rest of us poorer. Even the merely affluent are starting to feel the pinch these days.
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Re: Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:30 pm

MMMfff, send all politicos to South Sudan, those that come back via libya may or may not be rescued at sea...
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