Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

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Strontium Dog
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Strontium Dog » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:39 pm

Animavore wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:27 pm
The UK created Isreal without permission of those who lived there. Of course they are complicit. They never had any right to create the state.
They did the same with my country. Took our land and proportioned it out to whomever they pleased while removing in the way natives.
Modern Israel was a creation of the United Nations. And there was never not a period when Jews did not live there. Of course, there was an influx of Jewish refugees back home after the umpteenth genocide against them, and Israel had to be re-established because Arab racists were murdering the refugees.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Strontium Dog » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:42 pm

Śiva wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:30 pm
Strontium Dog wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:26 pm
"While the Jews were away" is a heck of a euphemism for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homeland!
OK SD, so tell me why is the Jewish ethnicity treated with such special consideration for what is a dead fact of history when other ethnicities have been similarly displaced from their homelands and receive no such treatment?
Which displaced ethnicities did you have in mind? And how many of those displaced peoples were subjected to multiple genocides?
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Jason » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:42 pm

God damnit I'm all for the reinstatement of the Estruscan homeland too!
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Animavore » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:39 pm
Animavore wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:27 pm
The UK created Isreal without permission of those who lived there. Of course they are complicit. They never had any right to create the state.
They did the same with my country. Took our land and proportioned it out to whomever they pleased while removing in the way natives.
Modern Israel was a creation of the United Nations. And there was never not a period when Jews did not live there. Of course, there was an influx of Jewish refugees back home after the umpteenth genocide against them, and Israel had to be re-established because Arab racists were murdering the refugees.
The United Nations had no right either. No one consulted the people living there. I sure as fuck know you Brits don't like it if someone else tries to take your sovereignty (real or percieved).
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Strontium Dog » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:47 pm

Animavore wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:31 pm
Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:32 pm
Jews have a right to live, Israeli had no right to steal the lands of Palestine from the occupants who settled them while the Jews were away.
While the Jews were away? They never went anywhere. Palestinians are decendants of the people who always lived there. They just changed religion and culture over time. They are a Semitic group.

Isreali Jews aren't only diaspora anyway. They are largely genetically European.
Arabs are from Arabia originally. Clue is in the name. And regardless of anything else, Jews are also undeniably genetically Middle Eastern. There is a racist movement that tries to paint Jews as white European interlopers, but they aren't, and genetic testing shows a close relationship to Arabs, Samaritans etc
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Jason » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:53 pm

You're the fucking racist Strontium Dog. Arabs are from Arabia and have no claim on the land? Fuck off. Seriously. Fuck off.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm

Śiva wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:15 pm
OK, so there's no actual moral justification for it then.
no, it's the reverse of moral justification... if anybody has moral justification, it's the Palestinians, they didn't take the land from the Jews (The Romans did that), and the Jews had no business confiscating the territory after being away for 2000 years, especially since they had been offered a territory to be the Jewish homeland... ok, that was Stalin, but the place still is called the Jewish special oblast, even if the Jewish population there is ludicrously low.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Animavore » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:58 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:47 pm
There is a racist movement that tries to paint Jews as white European interlopers, but they aren't,
Nope. Completely not what I said.

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Strontium Dog wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:47 pm
Arabs are from Arabia originally.
What's that got to do with anything? The Palestinians aren't Arabs.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:59 pm

Animavore wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:31 pm
Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:32 pm
Jews have a right to live, Israeli had no right to steal the lands of Palestine from the occupants who settled them while the Jews were away.
While the Jews were away? They never went anywhere. Palestinians are decendants of the people who always lived there. They just changed religion and culture over time. They are a Semitic group.


Isreali Jews aren't only diaspora anyway. They are largely genetically European.
I assume that Palestinian are an arab rather than hebrew group, and that they settled around the 7th century, during the period of Arab expansion.

But yeah, you're right, Ashkenazim are genetically europeans and have no business calling themselves Jews, much less colonizing Palestine... because, let's face it, the ashkenazi are a lot more virulent than the sefardim.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:01 pm

Śiva wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:42 pm
God damnit I'm all for the reinstatement of the Estruscan homeland too!
If you find Etruscans, I'll be all for Norther Italy being turned into Etruria.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Animavore » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:01 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:59 pm
Animavore wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:31 pm
Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:32 pm
Jews have a right to live, Israeli had no right to steal the lands of Palestine from the occupants who settled them while the Jews were away.
While the Jews were away? They never went anywhere. Palestinians are decendants of the people who always lived there. They just changed religion and culture over time. They are a Semitic group.


Isreali Jews aren't only diaspora anyway. They are largely genetically European.
I assume that Palestinian are an arab rather than hebrew group, and that they settled around the 7th century, during the period of Arab expansion.

But yeah, you're right, Ashkenazim are genetically europeans and have no business calling themselves Jews, much less colonizing Palestine... because, let's face it, the ashkenazi are a lot more virulent than the sefardim.
Arabs and Hebrews are pretty much the same people.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:03 pm

not quite, they have different (slightly) languages and cultures... Hebrews are settled, Arabs are much more nomadic
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Animavore » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:05 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:03 pm
not quite, they have different (slightly) languages and cultures... Hebrews are settled, Arabs are much more nomadic
That's like saying the Irish and the travelers aren't the same people.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Svartalf » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:08 pm

well, ask rural Irish if they are the same people as the travellers... and there's been serious cultural drift, the Travellers tend to speak shelta rather than standard English or Irish.

I mean, ask a serb if he's the same people as a croat, or a czech if he's a slovak... and in both cases the paired groups have mutually understandable languages...
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Re: Israeli Apartheid and the UK's Complicity

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:40 pm


Śiva wrote:I'm not saying Israel should not exist, but why is it that people feel that a particular ethnic group requires it's own ethnocentric homeland? There are many ethnicities around the world who do not have such a homeland and no one is calling for their right to have one. What makes the Jewish ethnic group special in that regard?
I think the genocide of the Holocaust was a significant, special event in this regard - and the creation of Israel was, in part, formed out of an international consensus that a homeland would act as a bar against anything like that happening again. And we have to remember that before the creation of Israel Jews were often considered outsiders in their countries of residence - and in many places they still are today.
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