The End of NATO

[Svartalf]

Frack with authentic, authentic Chinese restaurants serve some dishes that are not compatible with Western tastes, or at least with mine, and I like General Tso chicken, which is one of the least authentic chinese dishes ever.

[Scot Dutchy]

China and the EU could shut down America very quickly. Having large military forces says nothing these days. A thing Trump forgets.

[Svartalf]

actually, China is anything BUT communist... maybe it was in Mao's day, but that was 40 years ago, and in the meantime it has turned into a highly liberal, utterly capitalistic totalitarian dictatorship...

So, is that Jinping over Trump? Or rather Putin?
Seriously, I don't know why the US spends a dime on EU security.

neither does frump, is that any consolation to you, but people who know about Realpolitik do know, and they want to go on, because, while we are protected, we're Merka's top commercial partners. If we have to invest in our own militaries, that will be as much that won't go into trade, so no profit for the US.

[Tyrannical]

America is to 'ensure' our trade against their depredations for a nominal fee. I'm not a lawyer, but I think there's something in criminal law about that kind of thing.

Obviously not a lawyer. And Trump is stupid. Lawyers charge 33.33%
The only legal theft is taxation.

Not sure what non-US country you are from, and it doesn't matter. Your country cant do anything but cry if somebody wanted to play pirate.

[Jason]

There are plenty of things my country can do, mostly in conjunction with the rest of the world you want your president to continue to isolate the US from. The question is, what can you do when you can't afford to play pirate because no one is trading with you. Prepared to go nuclear I expect.

[Jason]

America is to 'ensure' our trade against their depredations for a nominal fee. I'm not a lawyer, but I think there's something in criminal law about that kind of thing.

Obviously not a lawyer. And Trump is stupid. Lawyers charge 33.33%
The only legal theft is taxation.

Not sure what non-US country you are from, and it doesn't matter. Your country cant do anything but cry if somebody wanted to play pirate.

It's not theft, it's called extortion or an extortion racket. I don't think the people of America have descended so far as to support anything so atavistic as your proposed foreign policy.

[Tyrannical]

America is to 'ensure' our trade against their depredations for a nominal fee. I'm not a lawyer, but I think there's something in criminal law about that kind of thing.

Obviously not a lawyer. And Trump is stupid. Lawyers charge 33.33%
The only legal theft is taxation.

Not sure what non-US country you are from, and it doesn't matter. Your country cant do anything but cry if somebody wanted to play pirate.

It's not theft, it's called extortion or an extortion racket. I don't think the people of America have descended so far as to support anything so atavistic as your proposed foreign policy.

I could say something funny and trolly, maybe a Jizya joke. But I wont.

If the US didn't, who would?

[Rum]

I think the USA (and Trump) are wedded to NATO at least for now. Trump wants to a 'better deal' for the USA, and he has a point. Europe, as the insane logic of these things goes, does not carry its weight.

Trump as usual fires first and thinks later. He says it bluntly, makes his point and shrugs off the collateral damage. How long this sort of strategy will succeed before something seriously backfires ia a mute point. But he has got Europe doing its sums that is for sure.

[Tero]

Well, we now have a deadline: have to get rid of Trump by 2019. Because:
”The most stunning comment came from a source reported by Reuters: “He said they must raise spending by January 2019 or the United States would go it alone.”

This was greeted with shocked silence. It had seemed unthinkable: a US president threatening to pull out of a military alliance that the US has regarded as a cornerstone of its military strategy for 69 years.

Could Trump pull US out of Nato and what would happen if he did?
Read more
No one appears to be disputing the words. What is being disputed is the interpretation. Reuters reported Trump as having threatened to quit Nato but then rescinded this. Macron insisted this had not been Trump’s meaning.

But just as alarming was the apparent ultimatum. European leaders who have so far failed to reach Nato’s 2% defence spending target are talking about achieving this years from now, not by January.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... n-unfolded

[pErvinalia]

Trump or Jinping? Choose carefully as you may not get another chance

There doesn't seem to be much difference, IMO. Other than the fact that Jinping is a hell of a lot smarter than Trump.

[pErvinalia]

Well, we now have a deadline: have to get rid of Trump by 2019. Because:
”The most stunning comment came from a source reported by Reuters: “He said they must raise spending by January 2019 or the United States would go it alone.”

This was greeted with shocked silence. It had seemed unthinkable: a US president threatening to pull out of a military alliance that the US has regarded as a cornerstone of its military strategy for 69 years.

Could Trump pull US out of Nato and what would happen if he did?

Military coup? Or perhaps the deep-state led by the military generals would dispose of Trump.

[Jason]

If he pulls out all those troops how is he going to justify the military budget to congress?

And that is the crux of the matter. It's impossible to justify the insane military budget unless you have insane military expenses. This is one reason the Libertarian Party is opposed by pretty much every Big Money interest, including the U.S. military establishment. If we stopped fucking about in other countries' business we might not need 10 carrier strike groups or the two largest air forces in the world.

The other reason Libertarians are not taken seriously is we're mostly batshit crazy, dope smoking, anarchist leaning, survivalist gun nuts.

Well Tyrannical has a use for all the military expenditure they can calculate to be reasonably profitable - use it to extort your allies around the world and hold their trade forfeit to you if they fail to comply. Too crazy for Trump? I don't know.

[Svartalf]

Well, we now have a deadline: have to get rid of Trump by 2019. Because:
”The most stunning comment came from a source reported by Reuters: “He said they must raise spending by January 2019 or the United States would go it alone.”

that's a deadline, but seriously, short of a Democrat landslide next november, followed by impeachment, what chances are that it will be successfully met?

plus, seriously, I'm not sure I like the perspective of President Pence.

[Tero]

We are already going to ban abortion. What more could Pence do? Oh yeah, ban birth control. Because if you take a month’s worth of birth control pills, it’s as good as a morning after pill.

Plus he is a wimp inside, easy to push aside.

[Tyrannical]

I think the USA (and Trump) are wedded to NATO at least for now. Trump wants to a 'better deal' for the USA, and he has a point. Europe, as the insane logic of these things goes, does not carry its weight.

Trump talks trade deals and Treaty negotiations at the same time, and it's going to work. He's going to get much, much better deals out of Europe.

1. He'll pull some US troops out of Europe. This will be offset by increased EU military spending. This saves the US a lot of money. MAGA approved!
2. A good part of EU increased military spending will go to US companies, Trump will leverage trade deals to get even more. Makes the US a lot of money. MAGA approved!
3. Trump will leverage NATO support and trade deals on getting US LNG to displace Russian piped gas. US is set to be the World's largest LNG exporter. Makes the US a lot of money. MAGA approved!

Next up is NATO isn't safe buying steel from China, they need to buy it from he US. Rare earth elements too.

Trump as usual fires first and thinks later. He says it bluntly, makes his point and shrugs off the collateral damage. How long this sort of strategy will succeed before something seriously backfires ia a mute point. But he has got Europe doing its sums that is for sure.

I'm not sure anything could seriously backfire, it's Trump. He does that type of stuff all the time. Nothing he could say that could seriously backfire would be taken seriously.