Trump supporters; how far?

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Svartalf
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:04 pm

uh, scot... don't you see what's happened in Ukraine and Moldova, or Georgia? Russia is expanding, and putting puppet rulers in places where it does not want to rule directly, and I doubt the trend is gonna stop while Putin is in the Kremlin.
Russia has been singed by the Afghan crisis, but it's not about to give up trying to expand its imperium.
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:54 pm

Dont think so Svarty. He wants stability and trade which is why America keeps on piling the sanctions. We could try the peaceful way for a change. A consensus world peace? Why not?
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:49 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:54 pm
Śiva wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:40 pm
Tyrannical wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:36 pm
Śiva wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:15 pm
I was in the "OK let's try to tolerate the idiot for 4 years" camp, but I grossly underestimated just how much damage one idiot in the office of POTUS can do. The world has become surreal.
Oh it has not and you're just being silly. Huuuuge amount of smoke, tiny little fire. The only 'damage' he's done is to other politician's ego.
Oh look a troll/racist is supporting Trump, denying reality, and promulgating a false alternative. :read:
I'm not a troll, believer in evolution yes. But what reality and false alternative am I really promulgating? What has Trump really done that doesn't involve 'hurt feelings'?
Started a trade war that will damage the US economy and US workers.
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Jason » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:55 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:49 pm
Tyrannical wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:54 pm
Śiva wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:40 pm
Tyrannical wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:36 pm
Śiva wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:15 pm
I was in the "OK let's try to tolerate the idiot for 4 years" camp, but I grossly underestimated just how much damage one idiot in the office of POTUS can do. The world has become surreal.
Oh it has not and you're just being silly. Huuuuge amount of smoke, tiny little fire. The only 'damage' he's done is to other politician's ego.
Oh look a troll/racist is supporting Trump, denying reality, and promulgating a false alternative. :read:
I'm not a troll, believer in evolution yes. But what reality and false alternative am I really promulgating? What has Trump really done that doesn't involve 'hurt feelings'?
Started a trade war that will damage the US economy and US workers.
Sewn distrust, fear, and confusion between military allies.
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:04 am

He lied about everything at the NATO conference. NATO members are not going to pay any extra money all they did was to confirm the agreement they made last time. America does not pay 4% into NATO. The actual amount is unknown as that 4% almost includes the entire defence, CIA, NSA and other forces budgets.
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by JimC » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:36 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:59 pm
Where is the expansion of Russia?
I doubt that the Ukraine is Putin's "last territorial demand" in Europe. Everything that used to belong to the Soviet Union is on his wish list...
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:39 am

That's just your Anglo-Saxon adversarial pretend-democracy mindset at work, Jim. :nono:
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:02 am

Have seen that wish list personally Jim or was it provided by the White House?
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:24 am

Scot. Do some research and you'll soon understand that a low view of Putin and his policy objectives is not a secondhand opinion from the US. Political opponents having their assets seized and dying in prison, whistle blowers falling from 4th story windows, journalists being intimidated, beaten, or shot, shooting down aircraft over foreign soil, using chemical weapons abroad, these are not the actions of a state that's just misunderstood.

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:34 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:24 am
Scot. Do some research and you'll soon understand that a low view of Putin and his policy objectives is not a secondhand opinion from the US. Political opponents having their assets seized and dying in prison, whistle blowers falling from 4th story windows, journalists being intimidated, beaten, or shot, shooting down aircraft over foreign soil, using chemical weapons abroad, these are not the actions of a state that's just misunderstood.
Of course Brian. America does not do these sort of things. Like cleaning up its back garden. Removing in its eyes enemies of the USA.

Dont be so naive.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:52 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:24 am
Scot. Do some research and you'll soon understand that a low view of Putin and his policy objectives is not a secondhand opinion from the US. Political opponents having their assets seized and dying in prison, whistle blowers falling from 4th story windows, journalists being intimidated, beaten, or shot, shooting down aircraft over foreign soil, using chemical weapons abroad, these are not the actions of a state that's just misunderstood.
Of course Brian. America does not do these sort of things. Like cleaning up its back garden. Removing in its eyes enemies of the USA.

Dont be so naive.
That other states behave badly has absolutely no bearing on an assessment of the Russian regime unless, that is, one is looking to excuse Russia's bad behaviour.
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by cronus » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:54 am

America is better at hiding bodies though, via embedded journalists who only see what the military allow, employing proxy forces and destabilising regimes via invisible bean-counters. No one can build a empire without a trail of corpses. Ask anyone who ever did build one via a smile and nice gesture? Not many contenders.
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Rum » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:26 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:52 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:24 am
Scot. Do some research and you'll soon understand that a low view of Putin and his policy objectives is not a secondhand opinion from the US. Political opponents having their assets seized and dying in prison, whistle blowers falling from 4th story windows, journalists being intimidated, beaten, or shot, shooting down aircraft over foreign soil, using chemical weapons abroad, these are not the actions of a state that's just misunderstood.
Of course Brian. America does not do these sort of things. Like cleaning up its back garden. Removing in its eyes enemies of the USA.

Dont be so naive.
That other states behave badly has absolutely no bearing on an assessment of the Russian regime unless, that is, one is looking to excuse Russia's bad behaviour.
Putin stated a few years ago that the collapse of the USSR was one of history's greatest catastrophes. Can't remember where I read it, but it says a lot about what he is nostalgic for.

If one is looking for something or someone to blame about the present bad tempered relationship between Russia and the West one should, I think blame the West big time for not taking advantage of the situation when Russia was on its knees and its economy in tatters - not militarily but in inviting the country into the fold so to speak. There was a window back then when Russia could have just about been coaxed into becoming part of a greater Europe or at least not an adversary, which it certainly is today.

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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Tero » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:51 am

He would have to name a pro abortion judge to piss off conservatives.
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Re: Trump supporters; how far?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:17 pm

Rum wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:26 am


Putin stated a few years ago that the collapse of the USSR was one of history's greatest catastrophes. Can't remember where I read it, but it says a lot about what he is nostalgic for.

If one is looking for something or someone to blame about the present bad tempered relationship between Russia and the West one should, I think blame the West big time for not taking advantage of the situation when Russia was on its knees and its economy in tatters - not militarily but in inviting the country into the fold so to speak. There was a window back then when Russia could have just about been coaxed into becoming part of a greater Europe or at least not an adversary, which it certainly is today.
I will agree with you here. I was always of the same opinion.
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