Change the name of Israel

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Svartalf » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 pm

It's the Turks who are the Turds.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Hermit » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:08 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:54 pm
well, It might be a good idea to glass the whole of the Maghreb, Misr, near and middle east planet.

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Svartalf » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:10 pm

mmmh, I don't like that, I will not bow to the cockroach overlords
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm

Hermit wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:49 pm
Svartalf wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:31 pm
Viele Danke Herr Hermit.
Was an easy one. Whataboutism is not much of an argument. The source I took the stats from is a pro-Israeli site. One of its five listed projects is
Fighting the delegitimization of Israel
Also, this thread is about Israel. If Coito Two wants to discuss the virtues or lack thereof of Arab countries he can always start a thread about them. I hope he realises that is not a good idea to hold his breath until I sing songs of praise about them.
The stats on population on that page don't suggest anything resembling an ethnic cleansing of any kind. Nobody is engaged in whattaboutism here. That's just the latest "shut down the conversation" tool.

Sure, this thread is about Israel, and I've talked about Israel. Your meme referenced the Palestinian flag, and your allegation that Israel has somehow shoved a Palestinian State off the bed. The cartoon was a very poor analogy, bearing no resemblance to the truth, and your allegation that Israel has engaged in some sort of ethnic cleansing against Arabs is absurd. 25% of the Israeli population is Arab Muslim, and they're expanding, not contracting.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Hermit » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:14 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Your meme referenced the Palestinian flag, and your allegation that Israel has somehow shoved a Palestinian State off the bed. The cartoon was a very poor analogy, bearing no resemblance to the truth...
The statistics provided by the pro-Israeli site support the cartoon very well indeed.

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:31 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Nobody is engaged in whattaboutism here.
You demonstrably are. The thread is about Israel, but you are going on about Arab countries. If you want to discuss Arab countries, start a thread.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Strontium Dog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:34 pm

You can't divorce Israel and its actions from the context it finds itself in.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:39 pm

That's not what he's doing, though. He's referring to Arab countries to deflect criticism of Israel.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Hermit » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:48 pm

:this:

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:05 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:31 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Nobody is engaged in whattaboutism here.
You demonstrably are. The thread is about Israel, but you are going on about Arab countries. If you want to discuss Arab countries, start a thread.
The exchange with Hermit involved his cartoon where he analogized Israel to a dog which begins to intrude on Palestine's bed, eventually pushing him off altogether -- implying that Israel was an outsider who first tried to share the bed of Palestine (who was just sitting there minding its own business) and then eventually commandeered the entire thing.

I find it laughable that someone would bring up that supposed interaction between a supposed "Palestine" in the 1930s and 40s, and the State of Israel (and make that rather serious allegation against Israel in terms of a serious wrong committed against Palestine), and yet in responding, nobody is supposed to mention anything except for Israel.

Surely, you see that responding by clarify that the cartoon is not an accurate representation of what happened between the Muslims and the Jews over the last 70-odd years, and taking issue and opposing the concept displayed in the cartoon, is not "whattaboutism."

This constant "whattaboutism" refrain is just the latest attempt by some people who want to take or maintain inconsistent or irrational opinions to protect themselves from challenge on it. It's a way to keep specific examples on which concepts or ideas from being tested for consistency.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:06 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:39 pm
That's not what he's doing, though. He's referring to Arab countries to deflect criticism of Israel.
Hermit referred to "Arab countries" (at least Palestine -- Palestinian territories) in his cartoon.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:05 pm
pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:31 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Nobody is engaged in whattaboutism here.
You demonstrably are. The thread is about Israel, but you are going on about Arab countries. If you want to discuss Arab countries, start a thread.
The exchange with Hermit involved his cartoon where he analogized Israel to a dog which begins to intrude on Palestine's bed, eventually pushing him off altogether -- implying that Israel was an outsider who first tried to share the bed of Palestine (who was just sitting there minding its own business) and then eventually commandeered the entire thing.

I find it laughable that someone would bring up that supposed interaction between a supposed "Palestine" in the 1930s and 40s, and the State of Israel (and make that rather serious allegation against Israel in terms of a serious wrong committed against Palestine), and yet in responding, nobody is supposed to mention anything except for Israel.

Surely, you see that responding by clarify that the cartoon is not an accurate representation of what happened between the Muslims and the Jews over the last 70-odd years, and taking issue and opposing the concept displayed in the cartoon, is not "whattaboutism."

This constant "whattaboutism" refrain is just the latest attempt by some people who want to take or maintain inconsistent or irrational opinions to protect themselves from challenge on it. It's a way to keep specific examples on which concepts or ideas from being tested for consistency.
You've got to be taking the piss. You can't seriously believe you aren't engaged in whattaboutism.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:16 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:04 pm
Image
This definitely isn't whattaboutism. :roll:
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Hermit » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:41 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:05 pm
pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:31 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Nobody is engaged in whattaboutism here.
You demonstrably are. The thread is about Israel, but you are going on about Arab countries. If you want to discuss Arab countries, start a thread.
The exchange with Hermit involved his cartoon where he analogized Israel to a dog which begins to intrude on Palestine's bed, eventually pushing him off altogether -- implying that Israel was an outsider who first tried to share the bed of Palestine (who was just sitting there minding its own business) and then eventually commandeered the entire thing.

I find it laughable that someone would bring up that supposed interaction between a supposed "Palestine" in the 1930s and 40s, and the State of Israel (and make that rather serious allegation against Israel in terms of a serious wrong committed against Palestine), and yet in responding, nobody is supposed to mention anything except for Israel.

Surely, you see that responding by clarify that the cartoon is not an accurate representation of what happened between the Muslims and the Jews over the last 70-odd years, and taking issue and opposing the concept displayed in the cartoon, is not "whattaboutism."

This constant "whattaboutism" refrain is just the latest attempt by some people who want to take or maintain inconsistent or irrational opinions to protect themselves from challenge on it. It's a way to keep specific examples on which concepts or ideas from being tested for consistency.
You've got to be taking the piss. You can't seriously believe you aren't engaged in whattaboutism.
I'm sure he really does believe almost everything he spouts with utmost sincerety. There's a word for it. Richard Dawkins used it in the title of his polemic against beliefs in gods.

It's funny how many people who pride themselves for being rational, logical and objective can seriously and sincerely hold the most ridiculous beliefs.

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by JimC » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:27 am

There is always some room in an argument for bringing examples of an opposing point of view that is a useful contrast. However, when used as the main driving force to argue a position, and ignoring salient points on the key issue (such as the behaviour of the current Israeli government) it becomes a boring, repetitive and defensive refrain.
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