Change the name of Israel

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Animavore » Mon May 21, 2018 5:59 pm

The Christian Broadcasting Network! A news site run by Pet Robertson.

:hilarious:
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Svartalf » Mon May 21, 2018 6:07 pm

that's from Wizard of Oz, isn't it?, I'd swear I recognize that dress, even if I would not know judy Garlan d if sshe came up and kissed me.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 pm

“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 6:14 pm

“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon May 21, 2018 6:24 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:52 pm
Nowhere does that say that all the protesters were armed.
And nowhere did I say that either. How odd.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon May 21, 2018 6:25 pm

Animavore wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 5:59 pm
The Christian Broadcasting Network! A news site run by Pet Robertson.

:hilarious:
So what? Either the quotes are accurate, or they're not. Protip: they're accurate.
100% verifiable facts or your money back. Anti-fascist. Enemy of woo - theistic or otherwise. Cloth is not an antiviral. Imagination and fantasy is no substitute for tangible reality. Wishing doesn't make it real.

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Animavore » Mon May 21, 2018 6:26 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:25 pm
Animavore wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 5:59 pm
The Christian Broadcasting Network! A news site run by Pet Robertson.

:hilarious:
So what? Either the quotes are accurate, or they're not. Protip: they're accurate.
:hilarious:

Come back with a report from a website not steeped in Islamaphobic bigotry.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon May 21, 2018 6:31 pm

Animavore wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:26 pm
Strontium Dog wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:25 pm
Animavore wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 5:59 pm
The Christian Broadcasting Network! A news site run by Pet Robertson.

:hilarious:
So what? Either the quotes are accurate, or they're not. Protip: they're accurate.
:hilarious:

Come back with a report from a website not steeped in Islamaphobic bigotry.
Facts are facts, it doesn't matter who is presenting them.

42 has provided you with videos of those exact individuals saying those exact words.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Animavore » Mon May 21, 2018 6:35 pm

42 is on ignore. And even if true the mass murder conducted isn't excused. Not that I would believe any videos posted by a habitual liar like him without a massive code of skepticism.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon May 21, 2018 6:43 pm

Nobody is excusing the scale of slaughter, just pointing out that the "unarmed protesters" canard isn't particularly factual.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Animavore » Mon May 21, 2018 6:46 pm

According to a hateful, zealous, Christian website with a doomsday agenda.

Yes. I got that.
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Animavore » Mon May 21, 2018 6:52 pm

Read a good article the other day about how US news networks skewer their reporting on Israel.

Opinion
In America's news headlines, Palestinians die mysterious deaths


It is the peculiar fate of oppressed people everywhere that when they are killed, they are killed twice: first by bullet or bomb, and next by the language used to describe their deaths. A common condition of oppression, after all, is to be blamed for being the victim, and that blame gets meted out in language designed to rob the oppressed of their very struggle.

Such a situation has for decades been the tragic destiny of the Palestinians, who are themselves so routinely assigned the blame when they are killed by Israel – and not just by the Israeli government but by the American media and political establishment – that we have now basically come to expect it.

But we don’t have to accept it. By paying close attention to the language of the media, we can see how this double death of the oppressed occurs, and we can learn how to resist such an insidious way of framing the Palestinian struggle.

Consider the headlines. On Monday, the Israeli military killed more than 60 protesters in Gaza. The deadly violence was one-sided – no Israelis were killed – and disproportionate. In the midst of the carnage, the New York Times sent out a tweet about its story on the bloody events. “Dozens of Palestinians have died in protests as the US prepares to open its Jerusalem Embassy,” read the tweet.

Have died? Really? We should note how the virtually passive voice in this tweet hides the one performing the action, which is exactly what passive voice constructions can do. In this tweet, Israel is assigned no responsibility for killing protesters. On the contrary, Palestinians appear, simply and almost mysteriously, to “have died”.

The tweet was too egregious for many, including the director Judd Apatow. “Shame on you,” he tweeted. “This is like calling Trump’s lies ‘factual inaccuracies’. Please tell me an intern is running your Twitter feed.” Good for him.
In full; https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ous-deaths
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by JimC » Mon May 21, 2018 8:50 pm

Again, the total polarisation.

Either Hamas are brave resistance fighters and Israel (and often Jews in general) are evil warmongers whose country should be expunged...

Or the Israeli government and its brave soldiers are fighting to protect their borders, always using the minimum violence possible, and Hamas (and often Palestinians in general) are fanatical Islamic extremists wanting to utterly destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

How about a pox on both their sides?
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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Strontium Dog » Mon May 21, 2018 9:19 pm

Animavore wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:46 pm
According to a hateful, zealous, Christian website with a doomsday agenda.

Yes. I got that.
Yep, keep ignoring the fact that the quotes are factual, it really makes your argument look reasonable.
100% verifiable facts or your money back. Anti-fascist. Enemy of woo - theistic or otherwise. Cloth is not an antiviral. Imagination and fantasy is no substitute for tangible reality. Wishing doesn't make it real.

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Re: Change the name of Israel

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 9:44 pm

JimC wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:50 pm
Again, the total polarisation.

Either Hamas are brave resistance fighters and Israel (and often Jews in general) are evil warmongers whose country should be expunged...

Or the Israeli government and its brave soldiers are fighting to protect their borders, always using the minimum violence possible, and Hamas (and often Palestinians in general) are fanatical Islamic extremists wanting to utterly destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

How about a pox on both their sides?
Well, in all fairness, Hamas does say they want to kill all the jews and destroy Israel. I'm not sure why we would want to not take them at their word.

Regarding Israel, of course Israel, like every other country in the world. does not "always" use the minimum violence possible. However, rarely is "minimum violence possible" the international standard for the use of violence in war. Typically, wars are fought to win with overwhelming force. I don't know that Israel is bound to use just the minimum violence.

They're obligated not to commit war crimes, of course, and they need to take steps to not kill civilians. HOwever, when Hamas hides behind the civilians, stores military stuff in schools and hospitals, and causes their own civilians to storm Israeli positions, then it doesn't seem reasonable to blame Israel.

Israel has borders, because they accepted the UN partition. For some reason, when a Republican President is in office, UN auspices are a matter of international law and must be followed, because the UN has the final warmaking powers. However, when it came to partitioning the last bits of the defeated Ottoman Empire, the UN's determinations have been worthless. The Arabs rejected Partition, and the Jews accepted. Doesn't that enter into the analysis as to why the Palestinians do not have State? They chose not to have one. Why? Because Jews got one.

If they want a State, they can have one. Israel wouldn't be able to do anything about it. They roadblock is the fact that most Palestinians would not accept a State that doesn't include present day Israel within its borders. So, what can be done?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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