Change the name of Israel

[pErvinalia]

Clearly they should let Palestinians storm the fence and massacre Israelis. Or something.

Rubber bullets and lots of teargas would have been a better option, surely...

All I meant was in comparison to live rounds. Realistically, Israel was not going to stand by and let them surge over the border. If they weren't so bloody minded, they could have achieved the same effect with less deaths.

You're right. Just because Hamas sends waves of people into a shooting gallery does not excuse Israel for obliging. I've no doubt that things like water cannon could have been utilised that would have kept casualties to a minimum. Although the Hamas operatives setting up bombs along the fence were probably fair game.

Basically you are a guy who sheds tears over the natural process of eating non-sentient animals, but is perfectly happy with thousands of innocent people being slaughtered by a pseudo-religious state in breach of tens of UN resolutions. What a fucking piece of work you are...

[Alan B]

At the moment, this pseudo-religious state only exists in its present form because of financial support from other countries - taxpayers money in some cases. If that was withdrawn, and that this State had to rely on trade of its manufactured products with other countries, the situation would be quite different.

The supporting countries, I feel, are mainly acting out a 'reverse guilt complex' (is that a term?) where the horrors perpetrated on the Jews in WWII are in the backs of their minds and that to stop 'aid' they would then compound the Holocaust and be exposed to accusations of Anti-Semitism.

[Brian Peacock]

I hear all the claims and counter claims, and I don't know fuck all about it because I'm just an ordinary Joe. But I can spot a trend, and it doesn't look good for the Palestinians.

The Palestinian population in the West Bank (and Gaza) has increased even more over time.

Yep, it's not looking good for either side, as the Palestinian population grows Israel takes more land from them, which makes a two state solution even more urgent than it has been since, well, any time for the last 70 years.

[Strontium Dog]

Basically you are a guy who sheds tears over the natural process of eating non-sentient animals, but is perfectly happy with thousands of innocent people being slaughtered by a pseudo-religious state in breach of tens of UN resolutions. What a fucking piece of work you are...

Non-sentient animals is an oxymoron, as I think you must know.

"Perfectly happy" doesn't begin to sum up my feelings about the matter. Hopefully Hamas will eventually end their genocidal ambitions and a lasting peace can be attained.

[Animavore]

[Forty Two]

That was a violent protest organized long before the embassy was announced to be open. It was a violent protest against Israel's 70th anniversary, and the Nakba Day. The embassy is just an excuse of the media to blame it on Trump. This shit happens almost every year, and it's egged on and orchestrated by Hamas and the PA, and they purposefully get women and children to engage, so that they can create exactly what we're seeing.

Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are monstrous.

[Forty Two]

Pointing out that Israel's tactics worked effectively is probably not the best argument.

The Nazis used the same methods in every country that they occupied, and it was very effective.

If one German got killed, they would wipe out a village.
How long will it take the Jews to work out that Hitler's final solution would work for them too?
I think they already have, and are working on it right now.

Of course, that isn't what happened. What happened was that 40,000 people managed to protest, while 58 were killed, and most of those were Hamas activist members who were attacking the Israeli soldiers, hurling molotov cocktails, and otherwise taking aggressive action to destroy the fence and cross into Israel. Civilians were used by Hamas and the rest of the monsters leading the "cause" and they put babies and children in harms way, on purpose, to cause exactly this kind of scenario.

Who brings an infant to a loud protest, much less a violent one. They did it purposefully.

In front of European media, the egg their kids on to hurl slurs and epithets at Israeli soldiers and even hit them. They do this on purpose.

They fake injuries - there are proven incidents of uninjured persons, over and over again, being carried to ambulances and then getting up and walking away. Just the other day, a guy was faking being on crutches, and he ended up picking up the crutches and sprinting away. They spray dust and blood-makeup on their kids to make it look like they've been injured.

I mean, what Hamas and the PA do, with Iran's backing financially, is monstrous, and is designed to create these situations.

And, Israel has a right to exist. Israel will not be a Muslim country, nor is it "rightfully" supposed to be a Muslim country. The Palestians have a right to State side-by-side with Israel, but they refuse to accept it. Israel is not occupying itself.

The embassy that just moved to Jerusalem is in Israel. It is not on land that was designated to be the Palestinian state during partition. And, the Arabs rejected Partition, anyway. But the embassy is not even on land that would be part of any Palestinian state, unless the Palestinian state is supposed to eat Israel.

[Forty Two]

I hear all the claims and counter claims, and I don't know fuck all about it because I'm just an ordinary Joe. But I can spot a trend, and it doesn't look good for the Palestinians.

The Palestinian population in the West Bank (and Gaza) has increased even more over time.

Yep, it's not looking good for either side, as the Palestinian population grows Israel takes more land from them, which makes a two state solution even more urgent than it has been since, well, any time for the last 70 years.

If the Palestinians wanted a two state solution, it is theirs for the taking. They just need to ask for it, and agree that Israel can be the other state of the two. They had a path to that with the Oslo Accords, and they crumpled it up and threw it away.

[pErvinalia]

Basically you are a guy who sheds tears over the natural process of eating non-sentient animals, but is perfectly happy with thousands of innocent people being slaughtered by a pseudo-religious state in breach of tens of UN resolutions. What a fucking piece of work you are...

Non-sentient animals is an oxymoron, as I think you must know.

No I don't know that. Could you explain?

"Perfectly happy" doesn't begin to sum up my feelings about the matter. Hopefully Hamas will eventually end their genocidal ambitions and a lasting peace can be attained.

Collective punishment. How very liberal of you.

[Forty Two]

I think the "Abrahamite Kingdom of Israel" has a nice ring to it, and goes well with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

[Brian Peacock]

...If the Palestinians wanted a two state solution, it is theirs for the taking. They just need to ask for it, and agree that Israel can be the other state of the two. They had a path to that with the Oslo Accords, and they crumpled it up and threw it away.

You don't think the responsibility for a negotiated settlement falls to both parties?

[Forty Two]

...If the Palestinians wanted a two state solution, it is theirs for the taking. They just need to ask for it, and agree that Israel can be the other state of the two. They had a path to that with the Oslo Accords, and they crumpled it up and threw it away.

You don't think the responsibility for a negotiated settlement falls to both parties?

Of course, and the Oslo Accords was the negotiated settlement, and the Palestinian Authority immediately violated it in a variety of ways, which I've previously set out in detail, citing to the provisions of the Oslo Accords which the Palestinian Authority violated.

Had they abided by the terms, even substantially if not strictly, they could have proposed that their self-governance under the Accords be made into a State with the Oslo Accord borders.

The two major peace plans of 2003 – the US-sponsored road map to peace in the Middle East and the unofficial Geneva accord – could have been embraced had it not been for a bloody intifada by the Palestinians. Before that, the Oslo Accords would have worked, but the Palestinians refused to amend their constitution to get rid of the "destory Israel" covenant, and broke the Accords in several different ways.

The major obstacle to peace is that the Palestinians themselves, overwhelmingly, do not support a resolution which allows Israel to exist.

[pErvinalia]

They probably feel that way because Israel is a terrorist state that is additionally failing in its obligations as occupiers of Palestinian territory.

[Forty Two]

Israel is not a terrorist state, and is in full compliance with its obligations. The big legal issue is whether Jewish settlements in the West Bank are illegal or legal.

The Palestinians, however, are shooting themselves in the foot by not agreeing to a state, because if they would agree to a State that included pretty much the entire west bank and east Jerusalem, and Gaza, they Israel would have no choice to but to also agree.

If this goes on another 25 years, it'll be almost a century of this going on, and the Jewish population in Area C will increase dramatically. Grandchildren will be born there. When that happens, there will be no way to deport them.

However, the impediment to peace is not the desire of the Palestinians to have a State on the West Bank and Gaza. The impediment to peace is their desire to have their State on the land now called Israel. That cannot and will not happen. If they don't accept that, then they are never going to get anywhere toward a State.

[mistermack]

Just call it "Stolen Jewish State".

And the treatment of the Palestinians is the "New Holocaust".

That just about covers it.