US Election 2020

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laklak
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by laklak » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:29 pm

Chronic homelessness is an issue. You can't vote unless you have residence somewhere, but that isn't something that affects only poor people. I know, personally, quite a few people who really struggle with that because they live on a boat and have no residence in any state. We don't have a national ID card, nor a national driver's license. But it's an insignificant number in the larger scheme of things.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:47 pm

When elections are really close, even a small number of votes could make a difference...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:56 pm

Let's not get too fixated on the voter ID issue. There are many ways in which the Republicans suppress the vote. Shuttering polling places in minority areas thereby increasing lines and travel distances, intimidation at polling places, lying about deadlines, voter roll purges of people who haven't voted for a while, purges of people with slight variances in how their names or addresses are spelled (missing hyphen or "Dr." instead of "Drive" for example), denying students from out of state, accepting NRA ID but not school ID...

The list goes on and on. This is deliberate and it is widespread, and it isn't covered by conservative media.

Indiana purges nearly 500,000 from voter rolls

Opinion: Republicans may be about to steal an election in Georgia

Stacey Abrams campaign demands GOP's Kemp resign as Georgia secretary of state amid voter registration uproar

Native American tribe slams Supreme Court decision upholding North Dakota voter ID law

Arrest throws Waller County voter registration dispute into further confusion

New Voting Restrictions in America

Voter suppression, not fraud, looms large in U.S. elections

America's shameful history of voter suppression
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:01 am

JimC wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:47 pm
When elections are really close, even a small number of votes could make a difference...
And the electoral college greatly exacerbates the problem. A small number of votes can have global ramifications and can alter the course of history. In 2000, Jeb Bush basically gave the presidency to his brother via disenfranchisement*. Imagine how different the last 18 years would have been had Gore won instead of Bush. Gore actually believed in climate science. But instead we got Bush and Cheney and all their oil buddies and the disastrous "War on Terror" that has given us the two longest wars in American history.

*https://www.gregpalast.com/the-great-fl ... felonious/, https://www.aclu.org/news/settlement-re ... e-scrutiny
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by laklak » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:03 am

Well, family IS family...
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:02 am

I still say the pot of blue dye is the best in America. Its elections are more badly organised than most third world countries.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Woodbutcher » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:13 pm

Maybe the UN should send observers to the US election.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by laklak » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:58 pm

We'd just shoot them.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:12 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:17 pm
laklak wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:01 pm
Certainly, Jim, if a significant demographic was denied the vote it would be voter suppression. But we're going to need to define some terms, like "demographic" and "significant". Plus we'll have to look at the reasons the vote is denied. For example, if there is a free, universally available photo ID, and that ID is required to vote, and a significant portion of a particular demographic doesn't have them, it's not necessarily suppression. It depends on the reason they don't have the ID. If they simply didn't go down to the town hall or bother to get one then it isn't suppression, it's laziness. If they didn't bother to register is isn't suppression, it's laziness.
I think you are underestimating how difficult it may be for poor or homeless people to jump through bureaucratic hoops that you or I would find easy.
Identify the hoop. There are so many other reasons in society to have an ID that qualifies for voting. If that hoop is bureaucratic, then it means ever time we ask for ID's for something, it's discriminatory.
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:24 pm
The fact that a particular demographic, say 18 to 21 year old males, do not vote as frequently as older males, is not necessarily an indication that they are not able to vote.
In that instance, I would probably agree with you - it is purely personal choice. But there are other circumstances where a particular segment of society may be under-represented in voting, simply because the whole process of having the right ID is, on average, harder for them. That doesn't mean it will have that effect on the whole demographic, but it may be enough to give a particular party an edge in some circumstances. Bad enough if the barriers are, in a sense, accidental and not deliberately contrived; even worse if they are...
[/quote]

How is it "harder for them?" I have a really hard time with the notion that black people find it harder to get an ID than white people. On what basis would you argue that it is harder for them?
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:13 pm

Woodbutcher wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:13 pm
Maybe the UN should send observers to the US election.
Please send the Dutch.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:14 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:02 am
I still say the pot of blue dye is the best in America. Its elections are more badly organised than most third world countries.

Says the guy who knows absolutely nothing about how elections in the US are organized... lol
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:48 pm

Seabass wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:56 pm
Let's not get too fixated on the voter ID issue. There are many ways in which the Republicans suppress the vote. Shuttering polling places in minority areas thereby increasing lines and travel distances, intimidation at polling places, lying about deadlines, voter roll purges of people who haven't voted for a while, purges of people with slight variances in how their names or addresses are spelled (missing hyphen or "Dr." instead of "Drive" for example), denying students from out of state, accepting NRA ID but not school ID...

The list goes on and on. This is deliberate and it is widespread, and it isn't covered by conservative media.

Indiana purges nearly 500,000 from voter rolls
Let's take these one at a time. How is this "disenfranchisement?" The law requires voter rolls be updated periodically. People die. People move.
The purge is part of a massive effort to update the state's voter rolls after years of improper maintenance and neglect...States are required by federal law to update and correct their voter rolls. But in Indiana, that process was handled almost exclusively at the county level, leaving the task, in some cases, to county offices without the funding or resources to manage the lists.

Lawson began the process of cleaning up the voter rolls in 2014, when her office sent a postcard to every registered voter in Indiana. If postcards were returned as undeliverable, Lawson's office would send a second, forwardable postcard.

Those who did not update their voter records after receiving the second card were marked as inactive on the state's list of registered voters. Voters who didn't cast ballots in 2014, 2015 or 2016 were then purged from the rolls after the November contest.
How in the world does this disenfranchise Democrats more than Republicans? Are Democrats less likely than Republicans to read their mail? Are they less likely to return postcards? Are they less likely to vote in the last three elections?

We hear so much about how stupid Republicans are, and how Democrats are the smart ones who know how to science. I guess that native intelligence doesn't help with simple tasks like "registering to vote." LOL
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:38 pm

Woodbutcher wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:13 pm
Maybe the UN should send observers to the US election.
All flying in black helicopters... :tea:
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:34 pm

The 'Rust Belt' backup

If Trump were to lose the trio of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin in 2020, he wouldn't reach 270 electoral votes again, even if he kept all the other states.
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/09/66584515 ... ential-map
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Animavore » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:36 pm

So... Beto for President?
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