US Election 2020

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Forty Two
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:18 am

Tero wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:11 pm
The laws would require essentially all abortions past so many weeks to be C-sections, so that you can see if the fetus survives. Fetus to suffer for hours or days and then die anyway. Current abortion methods kill the fetus at the start, then remove it.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... ls-1365192
I hadn't heard of this one. How many weeks? Your link doesn't mention c-sections or any such requirement.

Can fetuses suffer when aborted?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:22 am

The practical terms of the law are such that abortion clinics cannot carry out abortions. They will have to be done in a hospital setting, where the survival of the fetus is possible. The abortion clinics just suck out the fetus (start at 3 min) so there is no chance of the fetus ever surviving. See 7 min part fro skull crushing.
dude here killed 1200 babies!
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:37 am

Tero wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:22 am
The practical terms of the law are such that abortion clinics cannot carry out abortions. They will have to be done in a hospital setting, where the survival of the fetus is possible. The abortion clinics just suck out the fetus so there is no chance of the fetus ever surviving.
dude here killed 1200 babies!
Which law? The ones they're talking about in Virginia and North Carolina - the "born alive" thing - are the ones that deal with an intended abortion which actually survives the process of being "sucked out." They wouldn't be talking about fetuses less than 20 weeks, for sure. Those can't survive. But, something like 28 weeks and up can. Third trimester entities can and do survive.

In Finland, abortion is allowed up to 12 weeks, and must be performed in hospitals, but the mother must advance legal reasons for getting the abortion. http://abortion-clinics.eu/wp-content/u ... eb2009.pdf From 12 to 20 weeks, much more restricted as to reasons.

In Denmark, for example, a woman has to apply for an abortion to a physician, to the community in Copenhagen or Frederiksberg or to the district, and it may only be performed by a physician in a district hospital, a hospital that is a member of the Copenhagen Hospital Association, or a clinic attached to the hospital. http://abortion-clinics.eu/wp-content/u ... eb2009.pdf

In Germany, abortion is allowed up to 12 weeks from conception if the woman declares to be in a state of distress (in practice: on request after counselling) rape or other sexual crime. Counselling compulsory for abortion on request. Counselling not compulsory for medical cases and in case of rape or other sexual crime. Compulsory waiting period after counselling (3 days; for abortion on request)! Second written medical opinion, in addition to the one of the doctor performing the abortion.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:54 am

Which law? The ones they're talking about in Virginia and North Carolina - the "born alive" thing - are the ones that deal with an intended abortion which actually survives the process of being "sucked out."
Yes those laws. But the fetus never survives being sucked out. What would be the clinic setup to revive sucked out fetuses? The diameter of the hose is such that it destroys fetuses. They cannot be put together. it's like putting it through a blender.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:03 pm

Tero wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:54 am
Which law? The ones they're talking about in Virginia and North Carolina - the "born alive" thing - are the ones that deal with an intended abortion which actually survives the process of being "sucked out."
Yes those laws. But the fetus never survives being sucked out. What would be the clinic setup to revive sucked out fetuses? The diameter of the hose is such that it destroys fetuses. They cannot be put together. it's like putting it through a blender.
Well... if it never happens, then the law does nothing. It would be like making it illegal to hit the moon with rocks.

A quick google search reveals that there are stats on it happening. Not huge numbers, but some in various states, of babies being born alive after attempted abortions. Some left to just die. These are late term, third trimester abortions.

One woman, Gianna Jenson, was "born during saline abortion" at nearly 30 weeks gestation. A 30 week abortion. 30 weeks. Criminy. I'm pro-choice, but 30 weeks?

I don't blow this out of proportion, though. A correct statement is that this kind of thing rarely happens. It's incorrect to say that it "never" happens.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:36 pm

Just a broader concept here, abortion will be lumped with all the "Democrats are radicals" themes for the election. It has a tiny bit more meaning than Trump hugging flags. So not really a Trump issue, he is not at the center of it.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:01 pm

Some of the Democrats are radicals - Tlaib, Omar, Sanders.

Radical: "advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social change; representing or supporting an extreme or progressive section of a political party."

Apt description.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:31 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:01 pm
Some of the Democrats are radicals - Tlaib, Omar, Sanders.

Radical: "advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social change; representing or supporting an extreme or progressive section of a political party."

Apt description.
Fascinating. Here on Earth 1, Sanders is a pre-Reagan era Democrat, and the entire Republican party is radical. Infanticide, ffs.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:11 am
He's an asshole. He is probably near impossible to work for, ruling by decree and abuse - the kind of boss that enters the building in increases the tension by his presence. Rules by fear and intimidation if necessary. Carrots and sticks. Results only. No excuses. I want X. Give me X or you will feel pain. If I get X, you will be rewarded. Then it's over, and you suck again until you give me the next thing I want. He cheats on his wives and girlfriends. He's selfish, mean, unpleasant, aggressive, conceited, gluttonous, avaricious, braggart.
He's vile, amoral, unethical, cruel, narcissistic, bigoted, hateful, sociopathic, aggressively ignorant, pathologically dishonest... and you defend everything he does.
"The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." ―H.L. Mencken

"Bad government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad." —Thomas Frank

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." —Einstein
"I’m a nationalist." —Trump

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:45 pm

Shaking in their pants, fearing socialism and free healthcare
Deep-pocketed Republicans who snubbed Donald Trump in 2016 are going all in for him in 2020, throwing their weight behind a newly created fundraising drive that’s expected to dump tens of millions into his reelection coffers.

The effort involves scores of high-powered businessmen, lobbyists and former ambassadors who raised big money for George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romney — and who are now preparing to tap their expansive networks for Trump after rebuffing his first presidential bid.

The project, which is closely modeled after the famed Pioneers network that helped to fuel Bush’s 2000 campaign, is slated to be formally unveiled on May 7, when well-connected Republican fundraisers from around the country descend on Washington for a closed-door event with Trump 2020 aides. Under the plan, which was described by more than a half-dozen party officials, high-performing bundlers who collect at least $25,000 for Trump Victory, a joint Trump 2020-Republican National Committee fundraising vehicle, will earn rewards like invitations to campaign-sponsored retreats, briefings and dinners.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... rs-1283459
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:51 pm

God, we're so fucked...
"The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." ―H.L. Mencken

"Bad government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad." —Thomas Frank

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"I’m a nationalist." —Trump

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Hermit » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:01 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:01 pm
Some of the Democrats are radicals - Tlaib, Omar, Sanders.

Radical: "advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social change; representing or supporting an extreme or progressive section of a political party."

Apt description.
More like a return to the fifties.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Sanders will be as old when sworn in to presidency as Reagan was at the end of 8 years.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Svartalf » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:41 am

Is sanders older than Biden? I've heard that Biden, if nominated, would be the oldest man to ever get that far into the election process
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Forty Two » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:52 pm

Seabass wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:39 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:11 am
He's an asshole. He is probably near impossible to work for, ruling by decree and abuse - the kind of boss that enters the building in increases the tension by his presence. Rules by fear and intimidation if necessary. Carrots and sticks. Results only. No excuses. I want X. Give me X or you will feel pain. If I get X, you will be rewarded. Then it's over, and you suck again until you give me the next thing I want. He cheats on his wives and girlfriends. He's selfish, mean, unpleasant, aggressive, conceited, gluttonous, avaricious, braggart.
He's vile, amoral, unethical, cruel, narcissistic, bigoted, hateful, sociopathic, aggressively ignorant, pathologically dishonest... and you defend everything he does.
I just find it hard to believe you think any of the major politicians are not most of those things.

If I waited for a pleasant, kind, considerate, non-narcissistic, non-sociopathic, expertly educated, pathologically honest and completely ethical and moral politician, I'd likely never vote again.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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