US Election 2020

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:30 am

To you, everything is suspicious, everything is possible grist for the mill of weird conspiracy theories...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:30 am

She's Antifa!
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Cunt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:33 am

Not everything. I find it very easy to trust the people around me. It's really been an amazing year that way. Keep seeing absolutely awesome acts of kindness, of competence.

But Epstein didn't hang himself.
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I don't want to forget this enlightening quote by our prestigious and sage member...
Hermit wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:41 am
Trump supporters are fundamentally racist.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Hermit » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:48 am

Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:49 am
The source is as sketchy as any, but if it runs counter to some line important to Hermit, I am confident we'll all know right away.
I assure you that I'll correct matters of fact even if you quote or link to something that does not run counter to some line important to me, but thanks for the insinuation that I would not.
So you talk about mobs and the working classes as if they were the question. You've got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have been rebels, but they have never been anarchists; they have more interest than anyone else in there being some decent government. The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all. Aristocrats were always anarchists. - G.K. Chesterton

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:33 am

Yes, It Was a Coup Attempt. Here’s Why.

What Trump tried is called a “self-coup,” and he did it in slow motion and in plain sight.


Since last Wednesday, people have been arguing what to call what happened at the U.S. Capitol — was it a riot? An uprising? An insurrection? I’ve been public in calling it a coup, but others disagree. Some have said it’s not a coup because the U.S. military and other armed groups weren’t involved, and some because Donald Trump didn’t invoke his presidential powers in support of the mob that broke into the Capitol. Others point out that no one has claimed or proved there was a secret plan directed by the president, and that Trump’s efforts to overturn the outcome of the 2020 presidential election could never have succeeded in the first place.

These observations are based on the idea that a coup is a sudden, violent seizure of power involving clandestine plots and military takeovers. By contrast, Trump’s goal was to keep himself in power, and his actions were taken over a period of months and in slow motion.

But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup attempt. Trump disguised what he was doing by operating in plain sight, talking openly about his intent. He normalized his actions so people would accept them. I’ve been studying authoritarian regimes for three decades, and I know the signs of a coup when I see them.

Technically, what Trump attempted is what’s known as a “self-coup” and Trump isn’t the first leader to try it. Charles Louis Napoleon Bonaparte (nephew of the first Napoleon) pulled one off in France in December 1851 to stay in power beyond his term. Then he declared himself Emperor, Napoleon III. More recently, Nicolas Maduro perpetrated a self-coup in Venezuela after losing the 2017 elections.

The storming of the Capitol building on January 6 was the culmination of a series of actions and events taken or instigated by Trump so he could retain the presidency that together amount to an attempt at a self-coup. This was not a one-off or brief episode. Trump declared “election fraud” immediately on November 4 even while the votes were still being counted. He sought to recount and rerun the election so that he, not Joe Biden, was the winner. In Turkey, in 2015, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan successfully did the same thing; he had called elections to strengthen his presidency, but his party lost its majority in the Parliament. He challenged the results in the courts, marginalized the opposition and forced what he blatantly called a “re-run election.” He tried again in the Istanbul mayoral election in 2019 but was thwarted.

There’s a standard coup “checklist” analysts use to evaluate coups, and we can use it to assess Trump’s moves to prevent the peaceful transfer of executive power. To successfully usurp or hold power, you need to control the military and paramilitary units, communications, the judiciary, government institutions, and the legislature; and mobilize popular support.

Let’s see how well this applies to what Trump has done.

The Military: During the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests, Trump drew Joint Chiefs Chair General Mark Milley and Defense Secretary Mark Esper out of a White House meeting to follow him for a provocative photo-op in front of a historic church. Paramilitary forces under the president’s command cleared a passage for his group across Lafayette Square. Trump was testing the military and the Pentagon to see if he could turn the U.S. armed forces into his own “Pretorian Guard.” The blowback from this episode emphasized the nonpolitical position of the U.S. military, but there was sufficient lingering concern that just days before January 6, 10 former Defense secretaries—including Esper, who had been forced out of his office for insufficient loyalty—felt compelled to issue an unprecedented public letter reminding Defense Department officials of their oath to uphold the Constitution.

Communications: In the old days, coup plotters would seize the Central Telegraph or Post Office, and later, radio and TV towers. Trump put a loyalist in charge of the Post Office. He did not take TV and radio by storm, but he discredited the “mainstream media” that was critical of his actions as the “enemy of the people” and recruited or pressured Fox News, Newsmax, OAN and social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook into participants in his efforts to sway public opinion in his favor. Twitter, in essence, was Trump’s equivalent of the TV and radio tower. He directly messaged the 88 million people who “followed” his account. He used social media and cable news to propagate false self-serving narratives, reinforce messages to provide justification for his actions, and mobilize his supporters.

... https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:42 am

Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:33 am

But Epstein didn't hang himself.
Quite possibly, but what elaborate edifice of conspiracy theories will you erect based on that possibility?
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:45 am

Seabass, I suppose it depends on how much the label "coup" depends on it being achievable, even if a gamble, compared to it being something very real in some peoples's fantasy, but in any objective analysis, utterly unlikely to succeed...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Cunt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:48 am
Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:49 am
The source is as sketchy as any, but if it runs counter to some line important to Hermit, I am confident we'll all know right away.
I assure you that I'll correct matters of fact even if you quote or link to something that does not run counter to some line important to me, but thanks for the insinuation that I would not.
So you read that paper on network anarchy? I hope...

Let me put it this way, here is a report. I think you may find it interesting.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... 1049am.pdf

I don't mean to insinuate anything with it.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
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I don't want to forget this enlightening quote by our prestigious and sage member...
Hermit wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:41 am
Trump supporters are fundamentally racist.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:54 am

As I've said, it was the lamest attempt at a coup that I could imagine. If it was a coup, it had no chance of success. I.e. it wasn't really a coup attempt. It was a riot and domestic terrorism (albeit mostly failed terrorism).
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Hermit » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:28 am

Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am
Hermit wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:48 am
Cunt wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:49 am
The source is as sketchy as any, but if it runs counter to some line important to Hermit, I am confident we'll all know right away.
I assure you that I'll correct matters of fact even if you quote or link to something that does not run counter to some line important to me, but thanks for the insinuation that I would not.
So you read that paper on network anarchy?
No, I have not.

Your question is irrelevant to the post you inexplicably quoted in order to ask it, so I will just reiterate in case you want to actually react to what I wrote there: I assure you that I'll correct matters of fact even if you quote or link to something that does not run counter to some line important to me, but thanks for the insinuation that I would not.
So you talk about mobs and the working classes as if they were the question. You've got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have been rebels, but they have never been anarchists; they have more interest than anyone else in there being some decent government. The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all. Aristocrats were always anarchists. - G.K. Chesterton

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:05 am

JimC wrote:Seabass, I suppose it depends on how much the label "coup" depends on it being achievable, even if a gamble, compared to it being something very real in some peoples's fantasy, but in any objective analysis, utterly unlikely to succeed...
I basically agree, but at the same time if Trump is allowed to run out his term without censure--and possibly even run for the Presidency again--then, like much if his, erm, quirks, the intent, along with the rhetoric and tactics which put that intent into action, risks becoming normalised or legitimised as a regular feature if US politics. Unless those who would seek to acquire or maintain their power by barefaced lying and counterfactual propaganda are censured I doubt this is the last time a presidential candidate makes a stand on unfounded claims about election irregularities and voter fraud - but then again, everybody lies right, so what's the big deal(?)
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:14 am

Which is why he must be impeached. Take away his pension as the Scrotum does not deserve it. Make sure a big black mark is placed against the name of Trump so as other family members will be reminded if they ever get notion to dabble in US politics.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:57 pm

There absolutely needs to be serious consequences, for Trump and his coterie, and for those who stormed the Capitol. There are obviously a plethora of relatively minor charges that will achieve clear convictions for the latter. It will be interesting to see whether more serious charges such as insurrection can be successfully prosecuted...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Animavore » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:39 pm

Image

National Guard in the Capitol.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:32 am

“American Abyss”: Fascism Historian Tim Snyder on Trump’s Coup Attempt, Impeachment & What’s Next
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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