US Election 2020

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Joe
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Joe » Sun May 10, 2020 8:41 pm

Cunt wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:08 pm
Tero wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:32 am
John McCain voted against Trump. He could, he was dying.
Is that why some refer to him as 'No-name'?

I've wondered awhile about that reference.
Joe wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:41 pm
Cunt wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:47 am
They did. Used it all.

Wet fart. Less substance.

Or is there something in there you think everyone else missed?
You should read it so you can make up your own mind instead of reciting nonsense others spoon-fed you. Remember, both sides are spinning it for their own purposes. It's not that you'll learn something that was missed. You'll learn what was lied about or ignored.

I doubt you'll do that. It would be work after all. :lol:
I've read what I need to, but my specialty isn't law, politics or international relations.

I do trust, though, that every Democrat who IS specializing in that, had access to the whole report, and used every bit of ammo it provided.

With all that ammo, their efforts have come to nothing.

So what am I supposed to believe?

That it means something important, but the officials decided not to use it?

What are you trying to convince me of, exactly?
Sean said it well.
You'd have to read what was found and decide for yourself.
Or not.

It's your credibility pal. :yawn:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Sun May 10, 2020 8:50 pm

Trump losing Florida
F7D44AE2-5896-4FDE-A8C4-27F6AB408FDB.jpeg
F7D44AE2-5896-4FDE-A8C4-27F6AB408FDB.jpeg (78.13 KiB) Viewed 380 times
....provided the old people stay alive to Nov.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sun May 10, 2020 9:41 pm

laklak wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:31 pm
The whole Logan act thing was a fucking sham to start with. The law was passed in 1798. Only two people have ever been indicted under it and neither was convicted. The intent of the law was to prevent unauthorized individuals from negotiating with a foreign power that was embroiled in some sort of dispute with the U.S. government, and undermining the government's official position. That didn't happen here, it was naked political partisanship and abuse by the prosecutor's office. The Dems knew it would never hold up in court so they had to trick him into a bullshit perjury rap.
The Logan Act is part of it but the investigation was specifically in regard to possible violation of 18 U.S. Code § 951. Agents of foreign governments and FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act). There's an evidence exhibit from the case that lays it out explicitly. Plenty of people have been prosecuted for violations of either or both, including Paul Manafort and Maria Butina. As a side note, in failing to register his work for Turkey Flynn had definitely violated FARA.

The decision regarding whether to pursue the FARA/18 USC § 951 case was made by the FBI and the prosecutors, not 'the Dems' and they didn't pursue it. In fact the FBI had drafted a memo closing the investigation on Flynn. Before it was filed, in pursuing the question of why the Russians had not responded more dramatically to the imposition of sanctions by Obama (expelling personnel and closing their facility, etc.) the investigators learned of Flynn's phone calls with Kislyak (see 'The FBI investigation of LTG Flynn' in this document). In that same document, we learn that the stated reason for the FBI interviewing Flynn subsequently was 'to determine whether or not Flynn was in a clandestine relationship with the Russians.'

All he had to do in the interview was tell the truth, and that would have probably ended the matter as far as the FBI was concerned, though they also probably would have notified the White House of their findings.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by laklak » Sun May 10, 2020 10:56 pm

Then why bring in the Logan Act? All it does is give their critics ammunition. It all stinks. But what goes around comes around - all this will come back to haunt them.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon May 11, 2020 2:39 am

Though it probably won't come back to haunt anybody, the story that Pence was lied to by Flynn has always stunk, as far as I'm concerned. Pence shot his mouth off on a Sunday talking head episode, and his claim was soon shown to be false.

He was in overall charge of the transition, and Flynn was reporting to him. The story is that he knew of Flynn's ongoing effort with regard to Russia, but was unaware of any phone conversations with the Ambassador of Russia to the United States. Remember Flynn is an Army man, and used to reporting on actions he takes on behalf of his team. Making nice with the Ambassador (reassuring him in regard to US policy re: Russia going forward) is a significant action. Is Flynn now himself writing policy on the fly here, or is he conveying a policy of the incoming Trump administration? If the latter, then tipping off the Russians about the policy of the administration of the president-elect would seem to be something he'd do because he'd been told to do it.

Pence doesn't seem quite so out of touch as to be unaware of such a series of conversations, but I may be overestimating his competence.

As for the Logan Act, I think that was pretty much a red herring that the media glommed onto and overplayed. The source I cited indicates that the investigation was primarily in regard to the question of whether laws other than the Logan Act had been broken.

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Cunt » Mon May 11, 2020 4:03 am

It's not a 'trick', laklak. The common term is 'jury tax', and everyone knows about it just fine.

I mean, they'll pretend they don't, while they whinge 'but he pleaded GUILTY!!!', but we all know.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Joe » Mon May 11, 2020 2:08 pm

Yeah, going to trial does carry a risk, but that's true for most defendants. Our plea bargaining system is problematic to put it mildly.

I remember his son's legal troubles may have been a factor in the negotiations too.

Will Michael Flynn Plead Guilty And Cooperate To Protect His Son?
With Special Counsel Robert Mueller expected to indict both Michael T. Flynn, President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, and Flynn’s son, Michael G. Flynn, in connection with the investigation into Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election, speculation is mounting as to whether the elder Flynn will plead guilty to help his son, and in the process help himself. The elder Flynn’s lawyers recently stopped communicating with the President’s legal defense team, which some interpret as Flynn preparing to cooperate with Mueller. While Flynn certainly is focused on his own potential liability, that his son is a “subject” of the investigation places the elder Flynn in the difficult position of cooperating and accepting criminal culpability, rather than fight, in order possibly to prevent his son from being prosecuted.

The extensive reporting around the involvement of Flynn’s son certainly suggests there is legitimate justification for interpreting the Flynn component of the investigation as a prosecutable family affair. Federal prosecutors leveraging one family member against another is a page directly out of a four-decade old prosecutorial playbook used successfully in Wall Street prosecutions. One need not look beyond the Enron prosecutions and guilty pleas of Andrew and Lea Fastow, husband and wife, and the Drexel-related guilty plea of Michael Milken, with Lowell Milken (his brother) averting prosecution, to find the use of this tactic in high profile white-collar prosecutions, that is outside of organized crime and gang prosecutions.
However, getting out of a guilty plea so easily is not the case for most defendants. :coffee:
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon May 11, 2020 4:44 pm

People involved in the Flynn case have been speaking out.

'High Profile DOJ Alum Push Back At Barr’s Flynn Shenanigans'
Two former Justice Department officials who were directly involved in the Russia investigation have now spoken out publicly against Attorney General Bill Barr’s decision to drop the Michael Flynn case.

Mary McCord, who served as acting assistant attorney general for national security at the start of the probe, accused Barr of “twist[ing]” her words in the legal motions the Department filed to ask that Flynn’s case be dismissed.

Jonathan Kravis — a DOJ prosecutor who resigned after Barr meddled in the Roger Stone case — called last week’s Flynn maneuver “equally appalling.”

“In both cases, the department undercut the work of career employees to protect an ally of the president, an abdication of the commitment to equal justice under the law,” Kravis wrote in a Monday Washington Post op-ed.

McCord, writing in the New York Times on Sunday, took issue with how the Department used an interview she gave the FBI in July 2017, describing disagreements between the FBI and DOJ leadership, to rationalize dropping the Flynn case.

...

“In short, the report of my interview does not anywhere suggest that the F.B.I.’s interview of Mr. Flynn was unconstitutional, unlawful or not ‘tethered’ to any legitimate counterintelligence purpose,” [McCord] wrote.

Kravis meanwhile bashed Barr not just for the Department’s legal reversal in the Flynn case, but for how Barr “disparaged” career DOJ prosecutors in media interviews after the Stone and Flynn moves.

Kravis noted that DOJ policy and ethical obligations prevent these prosecutors from responding publicly without getting high-level permission. Kravis had resigned from the Department for its watering down of its Stone sentencing memo, and was free to issue a response.

“Barr’s decision to excuse himself from these obligations and attack his own silenced employees is alarming,” Kravis wrote. “It sends an unmistakable message to prosecutors and agents — if the president demands, we will throw you under the bus.”

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Cunt » Mon May 11, 2020 5:18 pm

Joe wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 2:08 pm
However, getting out of a guilty plea so easily is not the case for most defendants. :coffee:
Easy?

What did it cost him in money? Was that the easy part?

Or time? Easy?

Most defendants are (guilty or not) victims of a brutally powerful system. It ruins people in several ways (guilty or not)

I'm interested to see what he comes out with now. The whispers are that he knows where the bodies are buried. His own tweets suggest he will retaliate in lawful fashion.

But getting out 'easy'? I don't know how often people get out of that kind of pickle at all...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Mon May 11, 2020 6:29 pm

.
Last edited by Seabass on Mon May 11, 2020 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Seabass » Mon May 11, 2020 6:30 pm

.
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it." —From the OSS’s psychological profile of Adolf Hitler

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Joe » Mon May 11, 2020 7:26 pm

Agreed. :lol:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Cunt » Mon May 11, 2020 7:28 pm

There sure are a lot of 'former officials' being tapped for comment. Even Obama has weight ignorantly in on the Flynn thing...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon May 11, 2020 8:48 pm

Flynn was just a regular intelligence peddler. It was the hatred of Muslims that made him suitable for Trump:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Sun May 17, 2020 5:20 pm

Stacy Abrams could kick some energy into Biden campaign
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coronavirus worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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