US Election 2020

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Tero
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:09 pm

trump michigan now.jpg
Wisconsin is more volatile, but Trump can only take Michigan by extreme measures of voter purging.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:11 pm

He has the Russians. All he worries about is the Electoral College which is sown up.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:50 pm

Each state has some records so they can be searched after the election. But the states have some independence in this. The famous Bush vs Gore in Florida. They may have state rules for a final date to name the winner. In extreme cases, and where there are continuous lost sets of mail in ballots found, the state governor can simply name a winner. But Wisconsin, unlike 2016, and Michigan have Democrats for governors. So he is not going to win them that way.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:55 pm

Biden is like Romney...or Ford!...as far as overall charisma. Al Gore was actually even with Bush.
Hillary Clinton is the latest and, for the Democrats, still most painful example. The combination of her experience, her family ties and the sense that (in the words of a proposed campaign slogan) it was “her turn” drove every potentially serious rival out of the 2016 race. Bernie Sanders’ surprisingly strong primary challenge was a foreshadowing of her vulnerabilities, even if the signal was mostly dismissed until about 9 p.m. on election night in November.

Four years before Hillary Clinton was defeated, the Republicans trotted out the reliable, central-casting Mitt Romney to lose to President Barack Obama, a campaign that seemed to rhyme with the time the Dems unenthusiastically fell in line for John Kerry against President George W. Bush in 2004. Keep going back, and you see candidates like these over and over, marching under flags of pale pastel, all going down to defeat in November: Al Gore, Bob Dole, Walter Mondale, Gerald Ford, Hubert Humphrey and even Richard Nixon, in his first run, in 1960.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ats-100478
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tero » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:24 pm

Stupid voters:
But as voters start weighing their options at the ballot box, Antos said, Trump and all politicians have to at least argue they are on the side of protecting people with pre-existing conditions.

"I don't think anybody can be a credible politician running for office without supporting those kind of protections," he said. "The public didn't used to know this term, and now the public is very knowledgeable about what this term means."

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... macare?amp
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Joe » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:03 am

The Supreme Count is taking up the question of elector independence.
The Supreme Court agreed Friday to take up an issue that could change a key element of the system America uses to elect its president, with a decision likely in the spring just as the campaign heats up.

The answer to the question could be a decisive one: Are the electors who cast the actual Electoral College ballots for president and vice president required to follow the results of the popular vote in their states? Or are they free to vote as they wish?

A decision that they are free agents could give a single elector, or a small group of them, the power to decide the outcome of a presidential election if the popular vote results in an apparent Electoral College tie or is close.

"It's not hard to imagine how a single 'faithless elector,' voting differently than his or her state did, could swing a close presidential election," said Mark Murray, NBC News senior political editor.
This could be interesting. Even though our tradition since the 1830's has been for electors to be bound to vote for the party nominees, the Framers pretty clearly intended them to be independent. Might be a tough call for the textualists.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by JimC » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:12 am

I'll have to echo Scot here. Your system, for multiple reasons, especially "It's not hard to imagine how a single 'faithless elector,' voting differently than his or her state did, could swing a close presidential election" is nowhere near being a democracy. Add to that the gerrymandering connived at by your political parties, and the vast influence of wealth and power on the whole process, it doesn't need the cherry on the cake of foreign meddling to make you a basket case for truly representative democracy. Oz, with it's British model also has its faults, I'll not deny, but the USA might as well become a corporate oligarchy and stop pretending...
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:27 am

Entirely agree Jim. Until the EC is replaced and the Senate revamped there is no hope of any semblance of anything even approaching a democratic vote.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Hermit » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:51 am

JimC wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:12 am
I'll have to echo Scot here.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:27 am
Entirely agree Jim.
You agree with your echo? Quelle surprise! :surprised3:

That said, I agree with both of you.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:37 am

Why not?
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:37 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:27 am
Entirely agree Jim. Until the EC is replaced and the Senate revamped there is no hope of any semblance of anything even approaching a democratic vote.
The EC? and I doubt the senate will be revamped ever, the equal representation of all states in the senate, regardless of size and population is a core feature, little chance of anybody even thinking seriously of going back on that, much less taking actual action to.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:45 pm

Those two branches of American political sport is what the repugs rely on for power. They are totally undemocratic.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Joe » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:39 pm

Well, as someone once said, "We're a republic, not a democracy," and it's very true that our Founders were aristocrats of a sort with a deep distrust of the mob.

Maybe if the Supremes rule the Electors independent, enough Americans will be motivated to ditch the EC. Probably not. I suspect an election will have to be decided by the House before anything happens.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:49 pm

In the days when horse travel was the quickest known form of communication it might had some form of justification. With population so thin on the ground it did not really matter. The rich landowners just wanted power.
Nothing was ever changed except the electors dont ride to Washington.
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Re: US Election 2020

Post by Tyrannical » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:56 pm

Joe wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:39 pm
Well, as someone once said, "We're a republic, not a democracy," and it's very true that our Founders were aristocrats of a sort with a deep distrust of the mob.
Dude, it's not something someone said. It's the fucking Constitution governing us. :fp:
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