All Things Trump

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Sean Hayden
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun May 20, 2018 8:06 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:36 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:16 pm
Tero wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:17 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 1:25 pm
If you couldn't afford treatment before Obamacare then how could you after Obamacare? With Obamacare you went from having no insurance to having insurance that didn't cover shit. But hey, on paper you had insurance! :cheer:
There’s a difference between paying a 10 000 deductible and a 200 000 hospital bill.
Not for someone who can't afford insurance. I was at the doctor this week and some guy needed a procedure that would cost 180 bucks. He couldn't afford it. That's the level we're dealing with.

For someone who can't afford 200 bucks even a 5,000 deductible is insurmountable. But you want to claim Obamacare a victory.

--remember Bush on the carrier :hehe:
The person who can't afford the $200 gets free insurance, and did before Obamacare. We had a Medicaid system for truly poor people. The problem solved by Obamacare had nothing to do with poor people or people who could not afford insurance.

I'll remind you that before Obamacare over 85% of the population was covered by insurance. Of the portion that was not insured, half of them made above the median income. One quarter of the "uninsured" were illegally in the country. Of the remaining 1/4 that made below the "median" income in the US (then about $50,000 per year, many of those were eligible for free insurance under SCHIP and Medicaid, but never enrolled. The few that made too much money to qualify for Medicaid, often chose not to buy insurance which was available at something on the order of $100 per month (as late as 2012, before Obamacare kicked in).

Then Obamacare kicked in, and the cost of insurance has tripled and even quadrupled.

In my "lived experience" -- in 2012, insurance for family of four cost about $400 per month for a good plan through one of the major insurers. Now, after Obamacare spewed all over everything, It's now just under $1,400 per month. Per. Month. That's Obamacare.
Actually, he makes too much to qualify for free healthcare, but not enough to afford procedures not covered until a deductible is met.

That's a problem. Medicine is too expensive.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Sun May 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Obamacare did the opposite of making medicine less expensive.

Obamacare raised most deductibles. To get a low deductible, premium rates are obscene.

And, then you may as well pay the lower premium with higher deductible, because the premium rates for the low deductible policies end up making you pay for the deductible you'd otherwise have with the lower rate policy.

His only alternative is to have the procedure and owe the hospital money, paying it off over time. There are lots of ways to do that. All facilities offer payment plans, and there are companies which finance the amounts for low monthly rates and/or zero or low interest.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun May 20, 2018 8:31 pm

Hey, I didn't say Obamacare was a win.
"The Americans from the North, at least the great part of those I have seen, eat only salted meat, bread made by themselves out of corn meal, coffee, and homemade cheese. To these the greater part...add strong liquor, for they are in general, in my opinion, lazy people of vicious character. " --José María Sánchez ~1827

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Seabass » Sun May 20, 2018 8:58 pm

Trump 2016: The FBI is investigating Hillary so Hillary must be crooked.
Trump 2018: The FBI was investigating me so the FBI must be crooked.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sun May 20, 2018 9:07 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:36 pm
I'll remind you that before Obamacare over 85% of the population was covered by insurance. Of the portion that was not insured, half of them made above the median income. One quarter of the "uninsured" were illegally in the country. Of the remaining 1/4 that made below the "median" income in the US (then about $50,000 per year, many of those were eligible for free insurance under SCHIP and Medicaid, but never enrolled. The few that made too much money to qualify for Medicaid, often chose not to buy insurance which was available at something on the order of $100 per month (as late as 2012, before Obamacare kicked in).

Then Obamacare kicked in, and the cost of insurance has tripled and even quadrupled.
A lot of assertions and numbers there, but not a single reputable source to back them up. Cite your sources. Just for an example of your dubious assertions, while one quarter of those in the US who didn't have health insurance were foreign born, that isn't the same thing as 'here illegally.' Your history on this site doesn't inspire confidence regarding your un-sourced pronouncements.

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Seabass » Sun May 20, 2018 9:10 pm

No collusion.
Trump Jr. and Other Aides Met With Gulf Emissary Offering Help to Win Election
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/p ... zamel.html

WASHINGTON — Three months before the 2016 election, a small group gathered at Trump Tower to meet with Donald Trump Jr., the president’s eldest son. One was an Israeli specialist in social media manipulation. Another was an emissary for two wealthy Arab princes. The third was a Republican donor with a controversial past in the Middle East as a private security contractor.

The meeting was convened primarily to offer help to the Trump team, and it forged relationships between the men and Trump insiders that would develop over the coming months — past the election and well into President Trump’s first year in office, according to several people with knowledge of their encounters.

Erik Prince, the private security contractor and the former head of Blackwater, arranged the meeting, which took place on Aug. 3, 2016. The emissary, George Nader, told Donald Trump Jr. that the princes who led Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates were eager to help his father win election as president. The social media specialist, Joel Zamel, extolled his company’s ability to give an edge to a political campaign; by that time, the firm had already drawn up a multimillion-dollar proposal for a social media manipulation effort to help elect Mr. Trump.

The company, which employed several Israeli former intelligence officers, specialized in collecting information and shaping opinion through social media.

It is unclear whether such a proposal was executed, and the details of who commissioned it remain in dispute. But Donald Trump Jr. responded approvingly, according to a person with knowledge of the meeting, and after those initial offers of help, Mr. Nader was quickly embraced as a close ally by Trump campaign advisers — meeting frequently with Jared Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, and Michael T. Flynn, who became the president’s first national security adviser. At the time, Mr. Nader was also promoting a secret plan to use private contractors to destabilize Iran, the regional nemesis of Saudi Arabia and the Emirates.

After Mr. Trump was elected, Mr. Nader paid Mr. Zamel a large sum of money, described by one associate as up to $2 million. There are conflicting accounts of the reason for the payment, but among other things, a company linked to Mr. Zamel provided Mr. Nader with an elaborate presentation about the significance of social media campaigning to Mr. Trump’s victory.

The meetings, which have not been reported previously, are the first indication that countries other than Russia may have offered assistance to the Trump campaign in the months before the presidential election. The interactions are a focus of the investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, who was originally tasked with examining possible Trump campaign coordination with Russia in the election.

Mr. Nader is cooperating with the inquiry, and investigators have questioned numerous witnesses in Washington, New York, Atlanta, Tel Aviv and elsewhere about what foreign help may have been pledged or accepted, and about whether any such assistance was coordinated with Russia, according to witnesses and others with knowledge of the interviews.

The interviews, some in recent weeks, are further evidence that special counsel’s investigation remains in an intense phase even as Mr. Trump’s lawyers are publicly calling for Mr. Mueller to bring it to a close.

It is illegal for foreign governments or individuals to be involved in American elections, and it is unclear what — if any — direct assistance Saudi Arabia and the Emirates may have provided. But two people familiar with the meetings said that Trump campaign officials did not appear bothered by the idea of cooperation with foreigners.

A lawyer for Donald Trump Jr., Alan Futerfas, said in a statement that “prior to the 2016 election, Donald Trump Jr. recalls a meeting with Erik Prince, George Nader and another individual who may be Joel Zamel. They pitched Mr. Trump Jr. on a social media platform or marketing strategy. He was not interested and that was the end of it.”

The August 2016 meeting has echoes of another Trump Tower meeting two months earlier, also under scrutiny by the special counsel, when Donald Trump Jr. and other top campaign aides met with a Russian lawyer after being promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton. No evidence has emerged suggesting that the August meeting was set up with a similar premise.

The revelations about the meetings come in the midst of new scrutiny about ties between Mr. Trump’s advisers and at least three wealthy Persian Gulf states. Besides his interest in Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, Mr. Mueller has also been asking witnesses about meetings between White House advisers and representatives of Qatar, Saudi Arabia’s bitter rival.

A lawyer for Mr. Zamel denied that his client had carried out any campaign on Mr. Trump’s behalf. “Neither Joel Zamel, nor any of his related entities, had any involvement whatsoever in the U.S. election campaign,” said the lawyer, Marc L. Mukasey.

“The D.O.J. clarified from Day 1 that Joel and his companies have never been a target of the investigation. My client provided full cooperation to the government to assist with their investigation,” he said.

Kathryn Ruemmler, a lawyer for Mr. Nader, said, “Mr. Nader has fully cooperated with the special counsel’s investigation and will continue to do so.” A senior official in Saudi Arabia said it had never employed Mr. Nader in any capacity or authorized him to speak for the crown prince.
full article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/p ... zamel.html
Hey, Torquemada, whaddaya say?
I just got back from the auto-da-fé.
Auto-da-fé, what's an auto-da-fé?
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Joe » Sun May 20, 2018 9:17 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:07 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:36 pm
I'll remind you that before Obamacare over 85% of the population was covered by insurance. Of the portion that was not insured, half of them made above the median income. One quarter of the "uninsured" were illegally in the country. Of the remaining 1/4 that made below the "median" income in the US (then about $50,000 per year, many of those were eligible for free insurance under SCHIP and Medicaid, but never enrolled. The few that made too much money to qualify for Medicaid, often chose not to buy insurance which was available at something on the order of $100 per month (as late as 2012, before Obamacare kicked in).

Then Obamacare kicked in, and the cost of insurance has tripled and even quadrupled.
A lot of assertions and numbers there, but not a single reputable source to back them up. Cite your sources. Just for an example of your dubious assertions, while one quarter of those in the US who didn't have health insurance were foreign born, that isn't the same thing as 'here illegally.' Your history on this site doesn't inspire confidence regarding your un-sourced pronouncements.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun May 20, 2018 9:20 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:58 pm
Apparently, it was this guy. The FBI says it was part of an investigation. https://nypost.com/2018/05/19/cambridge ... -campaign/
It seems to me that you have to start with the premise that the FBI were deliberately seeking to smear and/or entrap Trump before you can even begin to call someone like this a spy planted for that purpose. I suppose it's just part of 'the FBI had no business investigating Trump' schtick that the old fox and his friends have been pushing remorselessly for so long now it's almost passed into the realm of sacred, hallowed truth.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon May 21, 2018 8:15 am

Everybody here is compulsory covered by healthcare. Basic insurance is a max of €100 a month plus an own payment of €380 a year.
If you cant pay it the town council through social services will pay it. Why cant America have such a scheme? You pay triple for your healthcare. Does it not make you wonder where all that money is going? Just another part of the corrupt state that is the great US of A.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 12:49 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:20 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:58 pm
Apparently, it was this guy. The FBI says it was part of an investigation. https://nypost.com/2018/05/19/cambridge ... -campaign/
It seems to me that you have to start with the premise that the FBI were deliberately seeking to smear and/or entrap Trump before you can even begin to call someone like this a spy planted for that purpose. I suppose it's just part of 'the FBI had no business investigating Trump' schtick that the old fox and his friends have been pushing remorselessly for so long now it's almost passed into the realm of sacred, hallowed truth.
Well, this is a developing story. I have not said what the purpose of the spy or mole was, or informant - you can call the person what you want, but it's a person paid by the FBI to go undercover into a political campaign, back in June or early July 2016, and maybe earlier.

Isn't there a good reason for a DOJ probe into what the basis for opening the investigation in the first place was? If the informant in the Trump campaign was put there based on political machinations, then that's a big problem. And, the public has not yet been given access to the information on which the FBI based its decisions.

What would be the argument against investigating that? What we'd need to know is which FBI officials approved the investigation and informant, and what information did they base their decision on (and as a corollary to that, did they receive direction from partisans)? Did they have probable cause? What cause?
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon May 21, 2018 3:30 pm

Ah, how soon we forget, when we're peddling 'deep state' conspiracy twaddle.
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
:whisper: You know, the Aussies are a part of it!
'Memo: Papadopoulos info triggered FBI's Russia investigation'

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Animavore » Mon May 21, 2018 5:54 pm

This is an actual page from Trump's official White House.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/nee ... als-ms-13/
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 5:58 pm

Are there good people on both sides of MS-13?
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:30 pm
Ah, how soon we forget, when we're peddling 'deep state' conspiracy twaddle.
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
:whisper: You know, the Aussies are a part of it!
'Memo: Papadopoulos info triggered FBI's Russia investigation'
The New York Times has previously reported that Papadapoulos bragged to an Australian diplomat that the Russians had damaging information on Clinton before the hack of the DNC became publicly known. The Australian government tipped off the FBI to what Papadapoulos had said, according to the Times.
Well, if the FBI started an investigation because Papadapoulos bragged that the Russians had damaging information on Clinton, then they have a big problem.
The memo asserts that the FBI hid details about the origins of the dossier from the surveillance court [when the FBI applied for warrants]. The memo also states that there is “not evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between [Carter] Page and Papadopoulos.”
Who opened the investigation? Peter Strzok, of the famoust sext message fiasco between him and FBI Agent Lisa Page, who gave the Clinton administration the election year pass for the investigation as to her conduct.

But if you think it's an open and shut case as to how it all happened, then good for you!
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon May 21, 2018 7:47 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 pm
L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:30 pm
Ah, how soon we forget, when we're peddling 'deep state' conspiracy twaddle.
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
:whisper: You know, the Aussies are a part of it!
'Memo: Papadopoulos info triggered FBI's Russia investigation'
The New York Times has previously reported that Papadapoulos bragged to an Australian diplomat that the Russians had damaging information on Clinton before the hack of the DNC became publicly known. The Australian government tipped off the FBI to what Papadapoulos had said, according to the Times.
Well, if the FBI started an investigation because Papadapoulos bragged that the Russians had damaging information on Clinton, then they have a big problem.
OK, explain why receiving credible information from an ally's intelligence service and investigating it is 'a big problem.'
Forty Two wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 pm
The memo asserts that the FBI hid details about the origins of the dossier from the surveillance court [when the FBI applied for warrants]. The memo also states that there is “not evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between [Carter] Page and Papadopoulos.”
WTF do you think quoting those two sentences accomplishes? It's hilarious that you would reference the abject lickspittle Nunes's claim regarding 'hidden orgins.' Perhaps you've forgotten that it's been acknowledged even by Nunes himself to be false. Carter Page and Papadopoulos could very well have discussed Russia, by Page's own admission. Nunes's memo was a steaming pile of bullshit.
Forty Two wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 pm
Who opened the investigation? Peter Strzok, of the famoust sext message fiasco between him and FBI Agent Lisa Page, who gave the Clinton administration the election year pass for the investigation as to her conduct.
Strzok and Page's interpersonal peccadillo has relevance to this issue in what way, exactly? You imply that there was a political motive for beginning the investigation, but that certainly has not been shown. Even if you buy the Trump sycophant narrative and believe that Strzok was motivated by politics (why wouldn't you, after all), I suggest you try repeating your tried and true mantra to yourself and see whether you find it satisfactory: 'Not illegal!™'
Forty Two wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 pm
But if you think it's an open and shut case as to how it all happened, then good for you!
The previously given explanation for this appears reasonable. I'm fine with the DOJ investigating, but I don't for a minute believe Trump and his pet Congresscritters' blustering and yapping has any credibility.

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