Stupidest idea of the month...so far

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Forty Two
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 16, 2018 12:03 pm

JimC wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:57 pm
Forty Two wrote:

Well, to summarize part of my wall of text, they care, but they shouldn't because the reason they care is based on their hatred of Jews and their objection to the existence of Israel as a Jewish, rather than a Muslim, state. If they cared because they had some other reason for caring, I think it might be more persuasive.
Those reasons probably exist, but they also have other valid reasons. When Israel was founded, many Palestinians became refugees from land that they had occupied for many generations. Those who remain in Israeli territory are treated as second-class citizens, with the remorseless settlement program whittling away at there remaining land.
Most of the people who left Israel at that time left because of hatred of the Jews, and because the surrounding Arab states launched an unprovoked war to destroy Israel. So, they fled the war.

Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, and those living in the areas which would have been an Arab Muslim theocracy but for Arab Muslim rejection of the partition (because they hate Jews and can't stand to have Israel existing) attacked Israel in unison. Israel, which had accepted its borders, defended itself, won, and during the war won 50% of the land that had been allotted to form yet another Arab Muslim theocracy in the Middle East. Jordan grabbed the West Bank, which it formally annexed in 1950. The refugees mainly fled the war, initiated by the Arabs Muslim states and folks in the West Bank and Gaza, etc., who wanted to conquer Israel, expel the Jews, and form another Muslim theocracy.

Arabs in Israel are not second class citizens. Jews in Arab states are, de jure, under color of law, second class citizens.

Most of the Arabs living in east Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967 and later annexed, were offered Israeli citizenship, but most have refused, not wanting to recognize Israel's claim to sovereignty. They became permanent residents instead. They have the right to apply for citizenship, are entitled to municipal services, and have municipal voting rights.

Now, I won't deny that there is Jewish discrimination against Arabs, there is. And, there is just as much discrimination by Arab Muslims against Jews, and Muslims in general against Jews. Neither side can deny that they prefer their own team. And, that's the major problem with not having secular government with a firm separation of Mosque/Temple/Church and state. I wish that Israel was not a Jewish state. However, as long as there are surrounding countries, which hate Jews, and which want Israel destroyed, not to destroy an oppressive theocracy and replace it with secular liberal republican government, but to replace it with yet another Muslim theocracy and drive out the Jews, I fail to see what choice is left but to allow one, tiny blip of a country there for a Jewish state. Is there an option?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by JimC » Mon May 21, 2018 6:16 am

pErvinalia, the following posts contain personal attacks on other members:

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 9#p1769079

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 6#p1769416

This is a warning that further such posts could lead to a suspension.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by rainbow » Mon May 21, 2018 8:37 am

Forty Two wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:03 pm


Most of the people who left Israel at that time left because of hatred of the Jews...
You did a survey then?

Please share it with us.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 10:58 am

No, did you? Also, the point was broader than the snip you quoted - "Most of the people who left Israel at that time left because of hatred of the Jews, and because the surrounding Arab states launched an unprovoked war to destroy Israel. So, they fled the war." They fled the war. The Arabs were overwhelmingly opposed to the state of Israel existing, they favored a war to end it, and they expected to come back after the war after an Arab victory that never came. That's my understanding. If you want to discuss and exchange historical sources, I'll be happy to go that route, but I won't participate in a one-sided discussion where I alone will provide research, citations, quotes, and other material.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by rainbow » Mon May 21, 2018 12:24 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:58 am
No, did you?
I didn't make the claim, you did.

If you just pulled it out of your arse then be good enough to say that's where you got your info, and we can get on with our humdrum lives.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Mon May 21, 2018 12:53 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:58 am
No, did you? Also, the point was broader than the snip you quoted - "Most of the people who left Israel at that time left because of hatred of the Jews, and because the surrounding Arab states launched an unprovoked war to destroy Israel. So, they fled the war." They fled the war. The Arabs were overwhelmingly opposed to the state of Israel existing, they favored a war to end it, and they expected to come back after the war after an Arab victory that never came. That's my understanding. If you want to discuss and exchange historical sources, I'll be happy to go that route, but I won't participate in a one-sided discussion where I alone will provide research, citations, quotes, and other material.
You're the one making claims.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 21, 2018 1:10 pm

The people saying that Israel expelled them, or that Israel is occupying Palestine, or that Israel is in the wrong, or committing war crimes, or is a terrorist state, etc. They, too, are making claims. I'm not the only one making claims.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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