Stupidest idea of the month...so far

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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 12, 2018 12:00 pm

Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:40 am
Lol. Even when English sentences are broken down for you you still can't get it.

I'd ask you again to read what Rum said but that might be too complicated.
Man, the nerve of you. This is embarrassing. :?
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Hermit » Sat May 12, 2018 12:02 pm

Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 am
Hermit wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 am
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 am
JimC wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:46 am
So where did the "ask baby for consent when changing nappy" nonsense appear? Was that not part of their program?
Irrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike. The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.

This seems to be where you all are getting caught up. You can't separate a part from the whole. You seem to be trying to reason that if the program is for the children (it's actually for parents and children) then the whole must be.
The way I see it, you are right in so far ingraining the habit of obtaining consent before doing something to another person by practice is a good idea. Doing that by asking a baby if it is OK to change its nappy is a sham, though. Every parent knows that the baby is incapable of granting or withholding consent, and even if the baby were capable of doing so, the parent would bloody well go ahead and change the nappy anyway. Deanne Carson is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.
Except Deanna knows herself that, clearly, a baby can't give consent. She says,

"Yes, just about how to set up a culture of consent in their homes so 'I'm going to change your nappy now, is that OK,' Deanne responded.

"Of course a baby is not going to respond 'yes mum that's awesome, I'd love to have my nappy changed'.

"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters."
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters." Does it? Will the parent's decision about the nappy change be influenced by the baby's body language in any way at all?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 12, 2018 12:06 pm

Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 am
JimC wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:46 am
So where did the "ask baby for consent when changing nappy" nonsense appear? Was that not part of their program?
Irrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike.
Except for the part where you said "it's not for the kids"... :?
The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.
Here's what it says:
purple woman wrote:She said she works with children from three years old on issues surrounding consent, but added that parents are advised to introduce ideas much earlier.

Deanne recognised that babies are unable to give an answer, but said it's important to use eye contact to teach them their response matters.
Do you understand who "them" is in the sentence above? And do you understand that when the aim is "to teach them", that you sound like a remedial English student when you say "this isn't about the kids"? :?
Last edited by pErvinalia on Sat May 12, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Animavore » Sat May 12, 2018 12:10 pm

Hermit wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:02 pm
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 am
Hermit wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 am
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 am
JimC wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:46 am
So where did the "ask baby for consent when changing nappy" nonsense appear? Was that not part of their program?
Irrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike. The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.

This seems to be where you all are getting caught up. You can't separate a part from the whole. You seem to be trying to reason that if the program is for the children (it's actually for parents and children) then the whole must be.
The way I see it, you are right in so far ingraining the habit of obtaining consent before doing something to another person by practice is a good idea. Doing that by asking a baby if it is OK to change its nappy is a sham, though. Every parent knows that the baby is incapable of granting or withholding consent, and even if the baby were capable of doing so, the parent would bloody well go ahead and change the nappy anyway. Deanne Carson is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.
Except Deanna knows herself that, clearly, a baby can't give consent. She says,

"Yes, just about how to set up a culture of consent in their homes so 'I'm going to change your nappy now, is that OK,' Deanne responded.

"Of course a baby is not going to respond 'yes mum that's awesome, I'd love to have my nappy changed'.

"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters."
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters." Does it? Will the parent's decision about the nappy change be influenced by the baby's body language in any way at all?
It may or may not. I personally doubt it. But I'm not going to dismiss it off hand or label people crazy, or make judgements on their hair (surprised no one went the whole hog and called her a dyke), because they do things differently. Locking kids up for life in the cellar to be used as a personal sex toy is "looney" to me. This is nothing.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Animavore » Sat May 12, 2018 12:11 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:06 pm
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 am
JimC wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:46 am
So where did the "ask baby for consent when changing nappy" nonsense appear? Was that not part of their program?
Irrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike.
Except for the part where you said "it's not for the kids"... :?
The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.
Here's what it says:
purple woman wrote:She said she works with children from three years old on issues surrounding consent, but added that parents are advised to introduce ideas much earlier.

Deanne recognised that babies are unable to give an answer, but said it's important to use eye contact to teach them their response matters.
Do you understand who is "them" in the sentence above? And do you understand that when the aim is "to teach them", that you sound like a remedial English student when you say "this isn't about the kids"? :?
Just stop now. Grown ups speaking.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 12, 2018 12:12 pm

:fp:

You've fucked up. Stop embarrassing yourself. :?
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat May 12, 2018 12:14 pm

I see a normal perv discussion has taken place. :fp:
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 12, 2018 12:16 pm

Ani should know he's in trouble when Scot's on his side in the debate.. :hehe:

Seriously, he's royally fucked this one up. He's chucked a tantrum pages ago and simply can't back down from that point. I've explained very clearly how this program works and how it is for the benefit of the children in their later life. He just can't accept that he's been arguing against his own bias the whole time.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Hermit » Sat May 12, 2018 12:21 pm

Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:10 pm
Hermit wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:02 pm
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 am
Hermit wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:37 am
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:00 am
Irrelevant. I've no problem with the idea the program is for adult and kids alike. The nappy part, as is clearly explained, is for the adult, as the consent training doesn't start 'til 3 for kids.

This seems to be where you all are getting caught up. You can't separate a part from the whole. You seem to be trying to reason that if the program is for the children (it's actually for parents and children) then the whole must be.
The way I see it, you are right in so far ingraining the habit of obtaining consent before doing something to another person by practice is a good idea. Doing that by asking a baby if it is OK to change its nappy is a sham, though. Every parent knows that the baby is incapable of granting or withholding consent, and even if the baby were capable of doing so, the parent would bloody well go ahead and change the nappy anyway. Deanne Carson is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.
Except Deanna knows herself that, clearly, a baby can't give consent. She says,

"Yes, just about how to set up a culture of consent in their homes so 'I'm going to change your nappy now, is that OK,' Deanne responded.

"Of course a baby is not going to respond 'yes mum that's awesome, I'd love to have my nappy changed'.

"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters."
"But if you leave a space, and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you're letting that child know that their response matters." Does it? Will the parent's decision about the nappy change be influenced by the baby's body language in any way at all?
I personally doubt it.
OK. So we agree on that at least.
Animavore wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:10 pm
But I'm not going to dismiss it off hand or label people crazy, or make judgements on their hair (surprised no one went the whole hog and called her a dyke), because they do things differently. Locking kids up for life in the cellar to be used as a personal sex toy is "looney" to me. This is nothing.
Well, I never called Deanne Carson crazy either. What I did say is that she is letting the politically correct bandwagon carry her into cloud cuckoo territory. Her proposal just adds ammunition to the anti politically correct brigades.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by laklak » Sat May 12, 2018 1:59 pm

If you're still asking your child if it's OK to change their nappy and they can give you a coherent answer then you've waited too long to teach them to shit in the bog.

But it might not be your fault. You could have asked their permission to teach them to shit in the bog and they refused. There are, after all, adult babies. Who are we to judge?
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 12, 2018 2:46 pm

If I waited for our girl to give her consent to have her nappy changed, she would have been wearing one shitful nappy for the first couple of years of her life. She used to scream blue murder whenever we lay her down on the change table. She'd be kicking and screaming and flinging shit all over the walls and floor. There's no way we could have stepped back and pretended to wait for consent. She would immediately try to sit up and launch herself off the change table the second we laid her down... :hehe: :?
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by Hermit » Sat May 12, 2018 9:42 pm

She could have been worse, rEv.

Image
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by JimC » Sat May 12, 2018 11:30 pm

And in a broader sense, this "developing a consent culture" program (in early childhood) is not automatically the golden path to eliminating bad male behaviour in later life (to me, it has more than a whiff of new age quackery). Simply good child rearing practices and fostering an overall attitude of respect for others would be enough, plus the change in the zeitgeist which is already beginning.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sun May 13, 2018 12:54 am

Hermit wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:42 pm
She could have been worse, rEv.

Image
:lol:

More seriously, the poor little thing had colic pretty bad. She had a terrible first 6 months or so. Her brother, on the other hand was a happy laughy little bundle of joy when he was young. They've swapped now, though. She's happy and has a wicked sense of humour, and he's a big cry baby.
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Re: Stupidest idea of the month...so far

Post by pErvinalia » Sun May 13, 2018 12:55 am

JimC wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:30 pm
And in a broader sense, this "developing a consent culture" program (in early childhood) is not automatically the golden path to eliminating bad male behaviour in later life (to me, it has more than a whiff of new age quackery). Simply good child rearing practices and fostering an overall attitude of respect for others would be enough, plus the change in the zeitgeist which is already beginning.
Yeah, this. This is pretty much what I mentioned earlier. It's more about a loving home and teaching your children to respect others (and themselves). I find the hugging idea particularly anti-human, and probably more harmful in the long run than beneficial.
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