Social media - echo chambers and politics

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Rum
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Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Rum » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:20 pm

There's been quite a lot written of late about the way the internet creates silo communities - echo chambers for people drawn together by one common viewpoint or united against one. I think it is likely a common phenomenon and it may well have added to the polarisation in many developed countries in political debate.

So I have a question about this as it affects me and my ilk - mostly liberal, left leaning types, supportive of the like of Obama and socialist leaning governments in Europe.

Most of the people I know and associate with are roughly in that category and most of them detest Trump. Most of what I read and see on the net is attacking him and what appears to be his wildly out of control and ill disciplined right wing agenda. There appears to be a lot of negative response.

BUT - was there a similar reaction to Obama from the Right during his terms in office that was invisible to me and my fellow lefties - living as we do too in our own silos and echo chambers?

Or is Trump just a bigger cunt than any earlier Prezidints?

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:32 pm

There definitely was. Obama was and is thoroughly loathed by those who now find Trump the answer to their prayers.

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Seabass » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 pm

Yeah, the far right in the States hated Obama. They called him a secret muslim, a crypto-communist, a non-citizen. Trump of course was a vocal "birther". Some of the religious wackos said he was possessed by a demon. They called him the antichrist. A lot of them called him a racist, and believed the US had no race problems until Obama. The Republicans in congress actively tried to block just about everything he wanted to do. They cheated him out of a SCOTUS nomination.

The religious far right in the US is totally fucking bananas. The crazy shit that they are dumb enough to believe is just mind-boggling.

Trump is far more hated though. Trump's approval ratings have dipped as low as 31 or 32%. Obama was never that unpopular.
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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Rum » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:54 pm

Seabass wrote:Yeah, the far right in the States hated Obama. They called him a secret muslim, a crypto-communist, a non-citizen. Trump of course was a vocal "birther". Some of the religious wackos said he was possessed by a demon. They called him the antichrist. A lot of them called him a racist, and believed the US had no race problems until Obama. The Republicans in congress actively tried to block just about everything he wanted to do. They cheated him out of a SCOTUS nomination.

The religious far right in the US is totally fucking bananas. The crazy shit that they are dumb enough to believe is just mind-boggling.

Trump is far more hated though. Trump's approval ratings have dipped as low as 31 or 32%. Obama was never that unpopular.
I suppose what I was getting at was an 'objective hatred level' measurement. My sense it that Trump wins by some measure.

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Tero » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:07 pm

The detail of what exactly the big chunk of working class Republicans think is clearly coming out. I was seeing all the Obama posts all over the place for 8 years. I took it to be some fringe element, very active. Not so, very regular folks. Folks from Kansas. Kansas is now about 90% Republican.

A book on how to talk to these folks: (who all support the Jesus guns and babies stuff)
The Little Blue Book: The Essential Guide to Thinking and Talking Democratic
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Blue-Book ... rge+lakoff

Republicans offer values. Democrats offer policies. Guess what? Values often win, even when the policies are more popular. It’s about time Democrats learned how talk (and think) in terms of the underlying values that make them Democrats -- values that are more widely shared by Americans than the values Republicans espouse. Here’s the essential handbook for thinking and talking Democratic – must reading not only for every Democrat but for every responsible citizen.” —Robert B. Reich, Chancellor’s Professor of Public Policy, University of California, Berkeley, and author of Beyond Outrage
“With their "Little Blue Book", Lakoff and Wehling are giving Democrats and Progressives a gift -- the tools to inspire Americans by using the moral language of our democratic values of caring for each other and building and protecting our community. Our leaders , Obama included, must stop falling in to right wing traps and repeating their language and frames. Our vision is far better than the right wing. Use this book, and earn from Lakoff and Wehling how we can best communicate for a future we all deserve and need.” —Don Hazen, Executive Editor, AlterNet.org
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Guns? Guns: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4714/264 ... 9c76_z.jpg
This is how American politics goes
1 Republicans cut tax, let everything run down to barely working...8 years
2 Democrats fix public spending to normal...8 years
Rinse, repeat.

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Tero » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:22 pm

These people like authoritarian rule in "moral matters" such as a leader, a minister a dad in a family. Law and order. But that is the end of government. It should not be involved in daily lives, business etc. life is endless competition. You have winners and losers. Leave the losers alone.
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
Guns? Guns: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4714/264 ... 9c76_z.jpg
This is how American politics goes
1 Republicans cut tax, let everything run down to barely working...8 years
2 Democrats fix public spending to normal...8 years
Rinse, repeat.

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:59 pm

I don't know about hatred, but Trump's approval ratings are low. Obama was basically in the traditional one-nation conservative camp, whereas Trump is to all intents and purposes a corporate shill in the garb of a traditional our-nation conserbative. I get the impression that the deep right's philosophical and political objection to Obama was not so much rooted his Democrat Party credentials, at least not entirely, but also that he was seen as an aloof intellectual, one whose apparent untrustworthiness was bolstered as much by his position among an established elite as by his status as a social inferior. In a national discourse which is so profoundly polarised between 'our people' and 'their people' Obama was never going to be seen as being capable of honestly representing the interests of self-declared real or 'true Americans' even if he was the most inclusive president for 40 years - and as things stand US presidents are going to continue to be seen as only ever representing 'their people' for some time to come. Social media just reinforce the divides that already exist.
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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Tero » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:04 pm


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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:31 pm

Look through a list of how Republicans' response to poll questions have shifted since the Obama years. A lot of it is 'if my team is for it, I'm for it, even if I was previously against it' but I'm not sure that covers this phenomenon entirely. I participate in a small US based political site, and there really was some vehement hatred of Obama from everyday Republicans. On an almost exclusively right-wing site that I rarely post on it was over the top, with people posting blatantly racist images of Obama regularly.

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Seabass » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:52 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:Look through a list of how Republicans' response to poll questions have shifted since the Obama years. A lot of it is 'if my team is for it, I'm for it, even if I was previously against it' but I'm not sure that covers this phenomenon entirely. I participate in a small US based political site, and there really was some vehement hatred of Obama from everyday Republicans. On an almost exclusively right-wing site that I rarely post on it was over the top, with people posting blatantly racist images of Obama regularly.
That list is amazing. Fuckin' tribalism in the extreme. My god I hate Republicans with a burning passion.
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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Seabass » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:21 am

Rum wrote:I suppose what I was getting at was an 'objective hatred level' measurement. My sense it that Trump wins by some measure.
Well, polling suggests that Trump is more hated than Obama, and even more than Bush. There was plenty of Obama hate from the right, but the Trump hate goes beyond anything I've ever seen. In addition to the low approval rating, there are polls like these:

The ten most common words that respondents gave were: "incompetent," "arrogant," "strong," "idiot," "egotistical," "ignorant," "great," "racist," "a------" and "narcissistic."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/incompet ... d=50178088
And almost half of those surveyed (44 percent) used the word “embarrassed” to describe how they felt about Trump being president, while 35 percent used the word angry, and 38 percent pessimistic. In contrast, 18 percent said they were proud, 32 percent used the word optimistic, and a further 16 percent used the word happy.
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-north-korea-781074

Obama is more popular than Trump even in Alabama, which is probably the most backwards state in the country after Mississippi. A Republican has to be pretty god-awful to poll lower than Obama in Alabama. In a Fox News poll, no less.
The poll, conducted from Monday to Wednesday and released Thursday, shows Obama with a 52 percent favorability rating in the state, compared to Trump’s 49 percent.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-po ... than-trump

And of course the news media's Trump coverage is mostly very negative. All the late night TV hosts savage him every night. Stephen Colbert quickly rose to #1 in ratings by relentlessly roasting Trump every night. Even traditionally apolitical comedians like Fallon, Kimmel, and Conan have taken to roasting him. There have been several protests and marches since Trump was elected. Numerous books critical of the Trump administration have already been published. Some notable Republicans like George Will have left the party over Trump.

The news media and comedians were far nicer to Obama. The teabagger protests weren't as big as the anti-Trump protests. No one left the Democratic party over Obama.
Hey, Torquemada, whaddaya say?
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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by Tero » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:09 am

It was a conspiracy by the media and talk show hosts and Comedy Central to get the viewers back from Netflix. They had to have a Trump. A tweeting twit. Not just a hated politician. A tweeter!

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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:35 am

Rum wrote:There's been quite a lot written of late about the way the internet creates silo communities - echo chambers for people drawn together by one common viewpoint or united against one. I think it is likely a common phenomenon and it may well have added to the polarisation in many developed countries in political debate.

So I have a question about this as it affects me and my ilk - mostly liberal, left leaning types, supportive of the like of Obama and socialist leaning governments in Europe.

Most of the people I know and associate with are roughly in that category and most of them detest Trump. Most of what I read and see on the net is attacking him and what appears to be his wildly out of control and ill disciplined right wing agenda. There appears to be a lot of negative response.

BUT - was there a similar reaction to Obama from the Right during his terms in office that was invisible to me and my fellow lefties - living as we do too in our own silos and echo chambers?

Or is Trump just a bigger cunt than any earlier Prezidints?
I think this is a real effect, and it's something I reflect on from time to time. But I certainly saw a lot of negative stuff about Obama, but I'm probably a lot further left than you. You probably didn't see it as the centre left loved him.
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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by JimC » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:22 am

Yes, but are you further left than Sandinista?

Given his absence, I think you are probably the only far-leftist in the village... :tea:
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Re: Social media - echo chambers and politics

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:11 am

Prolly not as left as a Marxist, but a lot more libertarian (i.e. a lot less authoritarian) than one. Marxists could admire the elitism that Obama represented (even if they couldn't admire a single other thing about him). I can't.

And I think Hermit might tie with me for being the leftest in the village.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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