US v Manafort

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Forty Two
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:37 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:15 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:48 pm
Deep State vs. Pure/Good/Right/Just are not the only two options. To suggest that politics doesn't enter into these things is aTrick-or-Treat_1.jpg rather naive view of it.
The FBI are and Mueller are apolitical.
In principle, they should be, but in reality, persons working within the FBI can be and are political, and have allegiances.
Page - “Yeah, it is pretty cool. [Clinton] just has to win now. I’m not going to lie, I got a flash of nervousness yesterday about trump. The sandernistas have the potential to make a very big mistake here …”
Strzok: “I’m not worried about them. I’m worried about the anarchist Assanges who will take fed information and disclose it to disrupt. We’ve gotta get the memo and brief and case filing done.”
Page: “[Trump’s] not ever going to become president, right? Right?!”
Strzok: “No. No he’s not. We’ll stop it.”


The investigative report concluded that such statements were
“indicative of a biased state of mind but, even more seriously, implies a willingness to take official action to impact the presidential candidate’s electoral prospects. This is antithetical to the core values of the FBI and the Department of Justice,
Strzok: “I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy’s office — that there’s no way he gets elected — but I’m afraid we can’t take that risk. It’s like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you’re 40.”
Sounds pretty darn political. And Strzok was no small fry in the investigation.

There are plenty more indicators. People were fired over it.

The FBI drafted the memo ending the investigation of Clinton months before they interviewed her. https://www.newsweek.com/james-comey-fb ... ent-686140

Trey Gowdy said -
keep in mind, the same people, the same players that were involved in the Clinton probe later move to the Russia probe. John Brennan who said he should be in the dustbin of history. Jim Comey who said impeachment was too good of a remedy. Loretta Lynch who wanted Hillary Clinton to win.

And then we got Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, the two FBI employees. Chris -- and this is what's most important to me, those two presumed and pronounced Hillary Clinton's innocence before her investigation ended, and they presumed and pronounced Donald Trump's guilt before the investigation
even began. So, when you have that pervasiveness of bias, yes, it's going to help the person who is complaining about the investigation.
Much of that sounds rather un-apolitical.
"Every socialistic type of government… produces bad art, produces social inertia, produces really unhappy people, and it's more repressive than any other kind of government." Frank Zappa.

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:12 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:03 am
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:54 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:31 pm
So you're of the opinion that the trial and the investigation that led to it are not legitimate proceedings?
I wouldn't say it's black and white. I have no illusions that Manafort may well be a tax evader and money launderer. That's not uncommon in the circles he traveled in. My suspicion is that the investigation is at bottom based, at least in part, on political machinations and political bias.

I don't think the Manafort trial has anything to do with Trump/Russia. It's a money laundering and tax evasion case involving allegations from 2007 to 2014. However, it's portrayed as somehow a problem for Trump. And, I think that has been the intent. I also think that the prosecution was, at the outset, in part at least, a tool to try to get manafort to flip, which is why they went after him, and which is why they turned up the heat and put him in solitary confinement. Such pressure is not a conspiracy theory - it's a time-honored tactic of prosecutors.
But there is a political dimension which can't really be avoided, and it's not a partisan one either. If Manafort or Gates' activities, their dodgy financial practices and tax arrangements, were known by some other party like, say, a Ukrainian or Russia operative, then they'd be ripe for influence and manipulation - compromised - and their respective positions and activities in the Trump campaign, transition, and presidency becomes a matter far more broad and significant than just a couple of potentially criminal fraudsters acting solely in their own interests and on their own behalf. In this regard the source of their income becomes every bit as relevant to the matter as what they actually did with it.
The allegations precede Manafort's involvement with the Trump campaign, and there has been no allegation that Trump knew anything about Manafort's financial dealings. It wouldn't make sense that Trump would know, either. Manafort would not open up his books to Trump to inspect.
"Every socialistic type of government… produces bad art, produces social inertia, produces really unhappy people, and it's more repressive than any other kind of government." Frank Zappa.

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:32 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:03 am
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:54 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:31 pm
So you're of the opinion that the trial and the investigation that led to it are not legitimate proceedings?
I wouldn't say it's black and white. I have no illusions that Manafort may well be a tax evader and money launderer. That's not uncommon in the circles he traveled in. My suspicion is that the investigation is at bottom based, at least in part, on political machinations and political bias.

I don't think the Manafort trial has anything to do with Trump/Russia. It's a money laundering and tax evasion case involving allegations from 2007 to 2014. However, it's portrayed as somehow a problem for Trump. And, I think that has been the intent. I also think that the prosecution was, at the outset, in part at least, a tool to try to get manafort to flip, which is why they went after him, and which is why they turned up the heat and put him in solitary confinement. Such pressure is not a conspiracy theory - it's a time-honored tactic of prosecutors.
But there is a political dimension which can't really be avoided, and it's not a partisan one either. If Manafort or Gates' activities, their dodgy financial practices and tax arrangements, were known by some other party like, say, a Ukrainian or Russia operative, then they'd be ripe for influence and manipulation - compromised - and their respective positions and activities in the Trump campaign, transition, and presidency becomes a matter far more broad and significant than just a couple of potentially criminal fraudsters acting solely in their own interests and on their own behalf. In this regard the source of their income becomes every bit as relevant to the matter as what they actually did with it.
The allegations precede Manafort's involvement with the Trump campaign, and there has been no allegation that Trump knew anything about Manafort's financial dealings. It wouldn't make sense that Trump would know, either. Manafort would not open up his books to Trump to inspect.
Seems you're not prepared to disuse the point of the post you quoted because you'd rather continue to make this matter all about the man himself, as indeed does he :tea:
.

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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:50 pm

Well, the thread is about the United States v Manafort, which is a thread about the US government prosecuting the man himself for specific alleged crimes.

I don't think the point you made was particularly concerning. I mean, whenever a government official is up to no good, if a foreign power finds out about it, the information could be used to blackmail or gain accesss or something. I don't deny that if Manafort was engaged in shenanigans, and some foreign power found out about it, it could be bad news. Same thing with every other politician, and if you think Manafort is the only powerful politician who plays fast and loose with the tax system and such, then I think you're wrong about that. Both parties are led by wealthy, alpha-persons, who engage in all these accounting shenanigans, and whether they are believed to be legal or illegal is in a big, broad grey area.
"Every socialistic type of government… produces bad art, produces social inertia, produces really unhappy people, and it's more repressive than any other kind of government." Frank Zappa.

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:57 pm

The shit keeps coming.

BRIAN CAN YOU CLEAN IT UP AND PUT IN ONE BIN. It is fucking stinking.
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Forty Two » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:07 pm

Brian, this thread is not about Donald Trump. It's about "US v Manafort." That's the intent of the thread. The judge in that case prohibited the parties from even mentioning Trump, and the Trump Russia issue had nothing to do with the trial.

It is not Scot Dutchy's business to squelch threads by demanding that they be merged with unrelated threads so that the conversations get buried in a mire of noices involving other issues.

Some of us are keeping this thread active with polite, civil discussion, and I see no reason why people who are interested in threads can't participate in them, and people that are interested in other topics can't go involve themselves elsewhere. It's obvious what the intent is with all this over-merging of tangential but not duplicative threads.

I mean, what's next? We have one thread for "pun" related threads? One thread for "parodies?"

Why even have separate threads? Just have one big thread "Politics" - and put everything political in there. Have one thread "science" and everything scientific will go in there.
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:03 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:57 pm
The shit keeps coming.

BRIAN CAN YOU CLEAN IT UP AND PUT IN ONE BIN. It is fucking stinking.
Get a grip. You hate everything else and seem to still get by, so it should be easy for you to hate all these threads and still get by.
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:23 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:03 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:57 pm
The shit keeps coming.

BRIAN CAN YOU CLEAN IT UP AND PUT IN ONE BIN. It is fucking stinking.
Get a grip. You hate everything else and seem to still get by, so it should be easy for you to hate all these threads and still get by.
How do I hate everything? My forthright manner is difficult to handle for anglo-saxon mind sets.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:25 am

:coffeespray: Yeah right.
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:26 am

What's ironic is that you are like the 42 of the left. You should be sticking up for your boy!
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am

I noticed that in in Ozland nobody spoke straight far more devious than the English even. Here is an example; When an Englishman asks you around to his he does not mean it; he being polite. When a Dutchman invites you around to his house he will make an appointment. I prefer the latter any time.
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Re: US v Manafort

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am

Um, ok.. :?
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"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:32 am

Just the way we are. The Dutch dont have time for "small talk".
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:40 am

That's great, man.. :?
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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Re: US v Manafort

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:46 pm


“I think the whole Manafort trial is very sad, I think it’s a very sad day for our country. He happens to be a very good person, and I think it’s very sad what they’ve done to Paul Manafort.”
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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